What should my attitude be on this?

[EC]

Ok, my first post. I've decided I'd take advantage of all the wisdom on this board to help me think through this.

For many reasons, I am conflicted about some new business that I have quoted and am a bit worried that I might be going down the wrong path. Or? I could be thinking about this all wrong and I am really scoffing at an opportunity.

I have spent a great deal of time learning how to build Content Management Systems for my clients, in fact I am focusing on them exclusively. It's been a huge process of learning HOW to do this, learning the applications involved, and then re-positioning my business (changing service offerings, etc.)

Now, a designer colleague of mine has a client that would like to convert her site to a CMS. (And a couple more that have expressed interest.) So she asked for me to quote her on this, just the structuring/coding, no design.

And just yesterday, I quoted yet another project because somebody 'heard that I build web sites that you can update yourself' and they wanted me to do JUST the structuring/coding of their existing design.

(Then the words were uttered that we all love to hear: 'It was designed by a 14 year old Junior high girl. We really love it.') No problem. *sigh* I can do that. Gave him a quote and it sounded positive.

Now. I am quoting what is a pretty fair price, it's money, easy money. No design, just chopping up someone else's work, sticking it into a stylesheet, etc.

But now I am worried. I want to design. I want to expand my DESIGN referral base. I don't want to be the 'go-to-gal' to chop up other people's (what might be crappy) sites to convert to CMS.

Then I am thinking, man ... what the hell am I complaining about? The more of these I do, the better and faster I will get. Maybe once people get to know me, they'll realize that I also have design services and who knows.

I can potentially see myself marketing this service 'convert your site to CMS!' and that might keep me pretty busy. I mean, I can totally see that. Once you demonstrate this and sell people on the benefits, they respond very positively.

I need to decide if I should drop my snobby 'I'm a designer' attitude and really embrace this for what it is?! (At the end of the day, I am STILL self-employed and love working for myself and from home and all that. It really could be worse.)

Then again, I could be limiting myself and NOT expanding my portfolio, it might not be the best thing for my business in the long run. I really don't want to be doing work that I don't enjoy just for the money, that's not why I am here, doing this.

Oy. Well, I guess I've probably got it coming to just shut the hell up and take the work and be grateful. So, let me have it. Any thoughts, wisdom ... much appreciated.

[Patrick Shannon]

The fact of the matter is that you can have the most ingenious system in the world, but if the design and appeal isn't there, it won't sell. For example, take books in the store. The story could be engrossing, but if you saw a cover with just the title in plain Times New Roman text.....BO-RING.

In fact, the company I interviewed for yesterday is in the same situation. They make content management systems themselves, but the problem is that they don't know how to design and effectively market their own company. That's where I would come in.

So I guess go ahead and sell your content management system or whatnot, but try and sell them on the strengths of having a good looking website and how it can communicate to the correct customer base. Besides, there are probably companies out there who want the entire package (CMS and design).

And if you're getting such good word of mouth, you're obviously doing something right...never know when that referral will reach the right ears.

Patrick Shannon

'Dear valued customer, go home and die. Signed, your friendly graphic artist.'

http://www.patrickshannon.com/mwwc_sm.gif
My War With Culture (http://www.mywarwithculture.com)
Political incorrectness reinvented.

[GrfxGawd]

You need to decide if you are in the design business, or the web design business. :)
Or, if they are both the same thing.

Then you need to balance those thoughts with the balance in the bank and draw a conclusion based on the sum of those things.

Good luck with it, hope to hear you've struck an answer by Monday. :)

Also for thought, it's not like this is a path that's once traversed, never to be crossed again. If you find you don't like it, don't keep doing it. Like most anything else you try in life that you find you don't like.

ALL generalizations are BAD.

[EC]

Patrick -- totally. Thing is, if another designer brings me in to do this, I can't see myself saying, 'You really need me to re-design this.' And people that have built their sites themselves (or hired a 14-year old to do it?) ... well, that can be tricky. I could *try* to sell some design magic, but I've also insulted people by suggesting that they need it. lol

Grafx, I am comforted by the advice that I can give this a shot, see how it goes, and then decide not to do it. I think that's what I will do in fact. I can sharpen my skills with the practice ... and have a nice, paying gig in and out my door in pretty short order. And my bank account would probably be thankful I did. lol I think I already know this is the direction I want to go ... but I was just curious if it might hurt me in the long run. (if I consider it a 'try it out' type thing, the long run thing is moot -- so, thanks for that!)

Problem is, I am already like, dreading it. Yunno? That can't be good. lol

[GrfxGawd]

Trying out drugs? Not Good.
Trying out life as a hood ornament? Not Good.
Trying out different over the counter laxatives as a recreational outlet? Not Good.

Trying out different types of work? Most Excellet!

'Be excellent to each other!' - Bill and Ted

ALL generalizations are BAD.

[EC]

What about fiber supplements? lol

No. You are totally right. What I needed was help with my attitude is all, if I am going to do it, I need to embrace it and give it my best. SO? HERE GOES NOTHING. Thanks for the pep talk. :)

[Patrick Shannon]

I never said selling them on it would be easy. It's really how you word things, I've read some books which bring up that subject.

If you do choose a path that moves away from design, make sure you keep your skills sharp and work on pieces for yourself (something to sell your business, perhaps?) to keep improving your portfolio. Otherwise if you do re-enter design someday, your portfolio won't be up to snuff. This copy shop has hurt me on that enough.

Patrick Shannon

'Dear valued customer, go home and die. Signed, your friendly graphic artist.'

http://www.patrickshannon.com/mwwc_sm.gif
My War With Culture (http://www.mywarwithculture.com)
Political incorrectness reinvented.

[EC]

I totally hear that. I spend so much time taking care of other people's business, I sometimes forget to take care of my own. I have worked hard to chart a new course for myself, I've stopped offering certain services so that I can emphasize and specialize in others (and get better, faster, etc.) and now ... well. I am not sure if this is like taking a step backward or not.

Just like working in a print shop can really help you down the road to be a master of print production, etc. ... this kind of work might be good medicine for me down the road, too. But what's more important, for me to be DESIGNING as much as possible? OR becoming a CODE master. I dunno. Both I guess. See? I am so confused what a mess I am. lol This really shouldn't be that big of an issue but it's nice to get this feedback, too.

But you know where I am coming from, I am going to have a hard time gearing up a really positive attitude about doing this type of work. Really, it's just crap isn't it. Building the guts on some crappy design that I can't put my name on? I know you know.

Still, as my grandfather used to say, 'Better than a poke in the eye with a sharp stick.'

[Keyare]

I totally understand your dilemma.

I had a customer that wanted their site updated, so I want all out and made it actually look good and work properly - then they FREAKED out and never paid because their son had made the site (Gawd awful) and they had wanted it to loook the same. Long story but I didn't touch websites for about two years after that. I got sooo screwed on the deal.

Lately, a customer wanted updates to their website and they said those magic words 'We like the way our site looks' then they sicked their 19 year-old daughter on me, who aparently needed to hone her micromanaging skills. So it was 'align this to the left', 'use this blue bar', 'This picture' ,'This way' and it took three months and boy was it frustrating, but I gritted my teeth. Eventually her father phoned and said they weren't happy with it. I told him nor was I. He said he had spoken to some of my other clients and the site was NOT up to par with my other work. So instead of telling him his daughter didn't know anything, I told him about my experience with the people who's son had designed the site and my reluctance to interfere with the look and feel of a site 'they liked'.

He told me to do whatever it took - do my thing. I got double what they were paying me and I went to work. They loved it. Their daughter was blown away and she even phoned me a little sheepish and apologised for micromanaging.

So - I don't know if there's anything in there for you, but with SOME people you have to bury your pride, others are smart enough to realise why you're the professional and they're not.

[EC]

That sounds familiar. That is one of the things I scratched off my service offerings list, I don't do maintenance anymore and ESPECIALLY if somebody else designed it. That's always a nightmare in my experience.

I had this one gal and she had a falling out with her designer (always a nice sign, huh?) and she wanted me to maintain her real estate site. I tried to say no about a billion different ways but she really wanted to work with me and pretty much begged.

So it took me awhile to figure out what the hell this guy had done -- you know it was all unecessary javascript and flash and frames and crap. So I charged her hourly and then she scoffed at the price. 'My guy says it only takes him about half an hour, why did it take you two hours?'

*sigh*

So, you can see that I am a little skittish here, not really sure what kind of nightmares this might bring. I am being REALLY cautious with my quotes. Any design requests? It's extra. If I have to fix a bad layout to make it work, I reserve that right. (One of these sites, the layout is different on every page so impossible for me to mimic. But the REASON why it is different is not because it's purposeful, but because the person who did it didn't know how to do it right.)

THanks for your story, it is always nice to know I am not the only one. lol

[Keyare]

One of these sites, the layout is different on every page so impossible for me to mimic. But the REASON why it is different is not because it's purposeful, but because the person who did it didn't know how to do it right*grits teeth*