Graphic Design Education

[mariana]

I am starting out in graphic design, and so far am entirely self-taught. This being said, I'm realising more and more that some sort of training (other than books and such) would probably be a good idea (or I'll never really "know my fonts" :) ).

The question is: there seem to be three or so different ways of getting a degree in graphic design... is one way better than the other?

- online training schools
- 3 to 4 year college programs
- intense 1 year programs (from technical/design institutes)

I would rather not be in school for another 3 years, but I also don't want to spend a whole lot of money for an intense course and come out undertrained. My eventual goal is to work for an NGO or transnational social justice organisation, to create websites and pubications that can communicate either specifically to, or across, cultures/nations. Therefore, it is important to me to really know what I'm doing.

Any thoughts would be appreciated. :)

[Mickey]

Hi Mariana, welcome to the forum... I would say that if you really want to be a graphic desiger you will need to have talent and a degree. If you have a lot of talent your degree can be less in depth. I also think you need a good portfolio to get a good job. get some training and work on some good samples.

[morea]

Hi mariana,

there are some EXCELLENT discussions of the topic here: http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6220

1/3 of designers in the industry today DO NOT have degrees.

now, if we can get those links working, we'll be all set. In the mean time, try a forum search for "education". Good luck.

[Mickey]

While I do agree that 1/3 of the designers in the industry today do not have degrees, I also believe that is why we are underpaid and underappreciated as a profession. There are way toooooooooooo...... many people out there that are acting like designers and taking poor wages for it because they know they suck. they are draging us down! big time.

[morea]

lets not bring this "debate" into this thread.

I personally don't have a DESIGN degree... mine is in business. AND I don't "drag anybody down".

[Neuro]

Last time I checked...wages have a lot to do with location too.

As I like to say...

How is the view up there?

[shlexymama]

Although I agree that a degree isn't necessary to be a talented graphic designer, there are definite perks. First of all, not all employers will understand that you don't need a degree or education in graphic design. Second of all, there are some design councils/organizations that will only recognize graduates from recognized institutions. The reason for this is to create a certain level of quality and standards of the graphic design profession. There is a lot more to graphic design than just being creative and have natural talent; there are ethics, codes of conduct and especially if you are interested in getting into the NGO or justice system organization.
Plus just think, if you didn't have a degree and had a great portfolio and someone else applied for the same job as you and had an equally great portfolio but had a degree, chances are the job would go to them.

[morea]

http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6102

Experience will trump a degree any day.

[shlexymama]

That is true, but in Mariana's case it doesn't sound like she has a whole lot of either. At least by getting a degree there is opportunity to freelance and gain a lot of experience along the way.

[Mickey]

and the debate goes on!

morea, that def depends on the person hiring for the the job!

not trying to start anything here just telling like it is

[Neuro]

I don't plan to work for someone else, so all I have to worry about are my clients. I have NEVER had a client ask if I had a degree. They are more interested in my work and what I can do for them. I'll be happy saving my money and putting it towards the business.

As I said before on this forum...as soon as they decided to make the schooling worth my money, then MAYBE I would consider going to school. Practical experience is more valuable to me.

Don't get me wrong. If you have the money...buy the piece of paper!

Oh, I am fiesty tonight! LOL!

[mariana]

Hello all,

I obviously should have looked around the site a little bit more before posting... (-:

In my own case, I worry that an online school lacks direct student/teacher interaction (which, at least in my current Philosophy program at university has proven invaluable). And the last time that I looked at going to an intense one-year program (the International Academy of Art and Design -- Ottawa), I was pestered for about 2 years afterword with letters and phone calls, asking if I was still interested. I am nervous about an education that is a 'product' and needs to be sold that much. I also am tired of being in school, have some fairly defined career goals, and would rather go a shorter path than 3 years. Money is an issue as I pay for everything myself, however, I tree-plant in the summer, and could (probably) make enough money to go to a one-year program and still eat.

As for the question of education and experience -- my own opinion is that anyone who has 'made it' in this field deserves some respect, and each has it's own benefits. Just for myself, I know that if I'm not in school, I am very busy working full-time, and I won't have the time to really study. (Right now the only program I can use with a tolerable degree of efficiency is Jasc PaintShop Pro v.9, which is not industry standard, I do know the basics of Photoshop and Dreamweaver as well. I can do digital photography and computer graphics but am not particularly talented at actually drawing. My experience is limited to a little work with 'honourariums' and a fair amount of volunteering with local activist groups.)

Anyway, long post I know, but I just wanted to say that I didn't mean to touch a sore spot with the education / experience issue -- I'm just guessing that for myself at least a limited amount of education will be beneficial.

[morea]

it's a perfectly fair question, mariana, and you are completely fine in asking...

it's just a hot button topic like the mac vs pc wars. people have strong opinions. no worries.

[CHRISGEE]

Hi Mariana,

Yes the fur can fly a bit around here sometimes but don't feel like you did something wrong by seeking out information. That's NEVER the wrong thing to do.

There is a rosey side and a thorny side to starting a Graphic Design career without a design degree.

The rosey side:

- You can begin your career far faster without needing to go through 4 years of college.

- You can avoid having to pay thousands of dollars for a 4 year degree


Now let's look at a few of the thorns on that rose:

- Employment opportunities are far more limited for you if you don't have a design degree. Design firms, ad agencies and many in-house corporate design departments simply won't even look at someone without a degree. There are always exceptions but the reality is that there is a huge chunk of employment opportunities that won't be available.

- Teaching opportunities. Many designers, either in an effort to give back or to suppliment their income, decide to teach design courses at local colleges or universities. For this you need an MFA. If you had a BFA in GD, you'd be only 2 years away from having your MFA and being able to teach if you wanted to do so. Without your degree, you're 6 years away.

- Network. Your fellow students, teachers and future alumni provide connections you'll benefit throughout your career. This aspect shouldn't be underestimated because "who you know" is always going to be critical in business. Just a few months ago, our firm had the opportunity to bid on a large contract with a firm owned by a guy I went to college with over 15 years ago. He knew through our alumni newsletter that I had my own firm and instantly thought of me.

I can certainly understand why you would be sick of school and want to get started working and obtaining experience in your field. That's natural. But consider everything when making this decision and think of your career as likely spanning 30+ years. Ask yourself what kinds of opportunities, twists and turns your career might take along the way to a 30+ year career.

Maybe at some point you'll want to take an agency gig rather than freelance? Maybe at some point you'll want to teach? Maybe at some point you'll want to take a secure in-house job at a company with good benefits and regular hours?

In general, I'd choose the path that opens more doors for me in the long run.

Good luck!

[D-Zine]

I have a thought or two on the issue of whether or not a degree is necessary in graphic design. I honestly believe that it is soley up to the person asking the question, like yourself...

I went to a 4 year Art & Design college and got my BFA in graphic design in 1997. Its a well known art college and I am proud of my degree...but..I did not attend college because I thought it would better my chances as far as getting interviews, and getting design jobs. I went to college and studied graphic design for ME and for no other reason. I knew since I was in the 8th grade what I wanted my career to be. I had no idea how to learn the things I needed to learn on my own and I KNEW I didn’t have the discipline to learn and study them on my own, so I attended college to help get me there.

Some people, many people, have what it takes to make it in this field as a self taught designer. I have seen this proven even on this forum. There are alot of self taught designers on here who are *very* successful because they have the talent, the drive and the passion to get them where they want to be in their career. They are open to learning all aspects of the field.

Me? Like I said...I *needed* the discipline that school would give me in the classroom enviroment. To motivate me. To push me in the direction I wanted to go in. To DRIVE me to be the designer I wanted to be. So to me it was worth the tons of money, but its not the same for *everyone* else. It’s not a “black & white” subject. It’s not YES you need it or NO you don’t.

I guess what I’m saying is - college did help me in alot of ways, but to be honest...In the real world, I have learned 10 times over anything that I learned in college. If I had the discipline and drive that some of the other designers on this board had to learn the things on my own that I learned in school...I would have gone that route for sure.

So again, I believe the main decision on whether or not you should attend school lies completely with you and if you feel like you really *need* school, or if you are disciplined enought to get you where you want to be in your career. Your portfolio is what is going to decide if you get the job or not - that will be a huge focus (or should be) on your rise into the field.

Good luck in your quest Mariana! :)

[Kool]

One thing that hasn't really been discussed here is the enormous cost of a 4 year degree. There are a lot of people still paying off this debt many years after graduation. So it's not only a question of should I get a degree or not, but Is it worth it to be 60 ~ 100 K in debt when I'm done. :cool:

[EC]

My feeling is, if you CAN get an education, and you know that a career in Graphic Design is what you want, get the degree.

I have a degree, but not a design degree. I am for the most part self-taught, but I wouldn't recommend this route to anyone if they have a choice. It's the more difficult path.

Yes, I work for myself so I don't ever have to worry at this point about the limitations of not having a piece of paper. But just recently I was in tears because I really needed/wanted to do something and didn't have the drawing skills to make it happen. Sure you can find ways to cheat or compensate, but I had run smack dab into a barrier and it was not a good feeling.

And so, because I want it bad enough and am willing to work hard at it ... here I am going through a drawing course (using the textbooks that they use in school) and training materials I purchased (at some expense!) ....... it's time consuming. I sometimes wish, "man, I wish I had gotten all this over with when I was in school." I will be practicing this until I feel like my skills have improved. And then, I'll probably go pick up a traditional course just to seal the deal. What a pain.

Though I realize that continuing education is part of any designer's job (and really, most professions), I feel that I have to spend even MORE time learning than the average design graduate if I ever want to get to the level of skill that I desire.

I average several design-related books per month, regularly "assign myself" tutorials, and pick up a design course at the local college from time to time. This is on TOP of the training that all designers go through to become proficient at the skills (CSS, prepress, etc.) and tools (Photoshop, Illustrator, etc.).

If I could do it all over again ...

[D-Zine]

One thing that hasn't really been discussed here is the enormous cost of a 4 year degree. There are a lot of people still paying off this debt many years after graduation. So it's not only a question of should I get a degree or not, but Is it worth it to be 60 ~ 100 K in debt when I'm done. :cool:

That is so a good point to bring up Kool.
I paid over $100k for my 4 years in college and am still paying. I will probobly pay another 10 years or so. That doesn't mean I don't think it was worth it..it definately was, for ME. But if I didn't have to pay that $200/mo more then I might be getting somewhere financially..LMAO!!

I still think that it depends on the person seeking the career..whether or not they feel they need the time in college.

[EC]

I totally agree with you D-Zine. I, for one, find it very difficult to find the patience to sit down and learn certain things on my own. All those times in school that you thought you were wasting your time on something silly, you really weren't! lol

[Soreen Kid]

oohh so much to weigh up though

a degree from an english university os about average, and if its in design, you may as well wipe your bum with it.

if you have a degree from an american university, then don't even bother wiping your bum with it. just flush it straight down the toilet. they're not as regarded as highly as degrees from britain and western europe.

im if anything over qualified, i do education because I enjoy it - and its not what the bits of paper you have. its what you can do that counts. never ever been asked for my qualifications, and if they did ask... I don't think they'd believe me :)

i may get myself a masters from an irish university next year, an irish degree is worth its weight in gold! As is a scottish degree.

p.s

northumbria is one of the best design schools in the country, but it is exactly like every other design school - only there's more pretentious people :)

[EC]

If it's what you DO that counts, when why should it matter where you go to school? Are you saying that if you go to an American or English university, that it will do more damage than good?

I am not quite sure that you realize this, but America is a pretty big place and there are lots of excellent schools here. I happened to have attended one, and it's opened doors for me. But I'll take it into consideration to remove my diploma from the frame next time I run out of TP. lol

[Vikia]

http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6102

Experience will trump a degree any day.

Hear hear!

[Vikia]

LOL EC!

I agree if you CAN go to school, it certainly never hurts to get the degree.

That being said, I have not found it to be a hinderance that I do not have a degree. Almost 30 years later with levels of experience from nearly every aspect of print and design behind me (from manual to digital)...I am glad for the experience.

http://www.vikiandersonsites.com/forumimages/panda.gif

[CHRISGEE]

On the one hand I agree that experience trumps a degree, on the other hand how is one to gain experience without a degree?

Not everyone is cut out for freelance. Not everyone is cut out for learning how to be a competent business owner and simultaneously learning how to be a good designer. Each is a daunting task by itself!!! LOL!

I've owned my own firm for 4 years now and the early days were REALLY tough! Luckily I had 12 years of design and design business experience under my belt at the time so I knew how to write proposals. To give client presentations. To manage hours. Handle billing. Handle cash flow issues. How to market myself. How to network.

But I've seen the most talented designers decide that self-employment was simply not for them. My question is, what then, if you don't have a design degree?

It may not sound fair but design firms and agencies -- for the most part -- won't look at someone without a degree. I've already covered the part about teaching design at a college or university not being an option.

It's something to consider. There are folks on this board and in the industry who are AMAZING designers yet don't have a design degree. What you have to really consider when starting out is what options you want to have for your career.

Yes, a 4-year degree is very expensive and getting more so. OTOH, a degree is required in the overwhelming majority of cases where you're talking about the higher-paying positions in the industry. Not only do most listings for ADs or CDs earning the big bucks require a degree, they also require years of agency/design firm experience, which again is tough to obtain without at degree.

I agree with EC, if you CAN, get a good design education from a good school. I've never once regretted having gotten my design degree. And even after 15 years, there are times when I am granted opportunities because I have one.

[morea]

On the one hand I agree that experience trumps a degree, on the other hand how is one to gain experience without a degree?

Personally, I started in prepress. Not the easiest route, to be sure.

Some print shops and agencies do still offer on the job training, but you may have to start at the bottom and pull yourself up by the bootstraps.

[EC]

Not everyone is cut out for learning how to be a competent business owner and simultaneously learning how to be a good designer. Each is a daunting task by itself!!! LOL!

Amen to that. Welcome to my world. lol

I've owned my own firm for 4 years now and the early days were REALLY tough! Luckily I had 12 years of design and design business experience under my belt at the time so I knew how to write proposals. To give client presentations. To manage hours. Handle billing. Handle cash flow issues. How to market myself. How to network.

I wouldn't say that a design degree, specifically, is required to be successful in these areas. Just watch the Apprentice and you'll see some really successful people without college degrees or even much experience (some of these kids are really young!) handle all of these things very well. Street smarts and personality count for a LOT.

I am not so sure I have the street smarts & personality, personally ... so I am very thankful for my time in the trenches.

[CHRISGEE]

Personally, I started in prepress.

But that doesn't answer the full question I posed, which was in respect to the depth of potential employment options.

If one decides after a period of time that self-employment is not for them -- and it's not for everyone -- their options are pretty limited in terms of finding work in a design firm or agency if they don't have a GD degree. And teaching at the university level is out of the question unless you have an MFA.

Where can they gain experience working in a studio environment? Managing other designers? Managing design projects large and small?

We're a small, 2-person shop in NYC but the only reason we're able to sometimes get large projects is because I'm able to sell clients on my agency experience having mananged those types of projects for many years.

Now there are plenty of designers on this board and in the industry in general who have managed to overcome this barrier, but I'm just stating that the barrier is there and that it will have to be overcome.

As long as those starting out understand this, they can make the informed decision to get a degree or not to get a degree, knowing full well the imact of that decision either way.

[morea]

chris, I suppose it also depends on where you live and work. am sure that there are plenty of designers in NYC and other cities that would happily look down their nose at me because I have the "wrong" degree, but I have never had a potential employer question my education or my credentials. Or a client, for that matter.

[EC]

Chris,

Project management is not *design* specific. I have worked in a design studio where I have seen this in action ... but I've also worked in a managerial role in other (related) industries. We're not the only profession that has to manage projects, staff, resources, cash flow, make presentations, propose jobs, etc. I have all this experience but I didn't get it working in a design studio.

Just sayin'. I think this is a separate issue from whether or not to pursue a design education.

[Soreen Kid]

If it's what you DO that counts, when why should it matter where you go to school? Are you saying that if you go to an American or English university, that it will do more damage than good?

I am not quite sure that you realize this, but America is a pretty big place and there are lots of excellent schools here. I happened to have attended one, and it's opened doors for me. But I'll take it into consideration to remove my diploma from the frame next time I run out of TP. lol

In a nutshell, American degrees are easier to attain than their British and or European counterparts. No degree will do you damage, well... unless you do one of those mickey mouse degrees.

It matters greatly which Uni you went to. Oxford University is not well known because it is old ;)

[CHRISGEE]

I wouldn't say that a design degree, specifically, is required to be successful in these areas. Just watch the Apprentice and you'll see some really successful people without college degrees or even much experience (some of these kids are really young!) handle all of these things very well. Street smarts and personality count for a LOT.

I am not so sure I have the street smarts & personality, personally ... so I am very thankful for my time in the trenches.

No doubt. There aren't truly very many professions where you ABSOLUTELY MUST have a degree. But there also aren't many professions where it doesn't absolutely help at some point or another.

My only point is that, for someone who is young and starting out -- as opposed to someone switching careers or with 5 kids and a mortgage -- they should really think about their career as a long journey where they won't necessarily know in the beginning, what qualifications they'll need down the road.

So you get hired at one of the relative few design firms who will hire someone with no degree. What happens when you want out of there and want to find another job? You're still faced with the same obstacle, even years later.

What happens when you want to eventually take a high-paying AD or CD job, only to learn that you're blocked at every turn because a BFA and sometimes Masters degree are required?

If a person is extremely certain, at age 21, that they want only to spend the next 30+ years in self-employment, that makes the decision not to get a degree easier.

Personally, my career is nothing like what I imagined it would be when I was 21. I had never heard of the Internet, never thought I'd lose my agency job as a result of the WTC being demolished in a terror attack and never imagined that I would immediately start my own company and truly love being captain of my own destiny (not to mention the "nooners" with my only female employee ;-) ).

It's so tough to be certain what you'll need when you're so young and starting out. You gave the BEST advice; if they CAN get a good design education form a good school (not a crappy education from a crappy school), then get it. Years later, they'll be happy they did.

[EC]

Scratching "Go to Harvard" off my list. That frees up some time for me, thanks! lol

[EC]

Chris,

This is exactly why I don't have a design degree - I didn't know what I wanted to do when I was 17. I wanted to work in a creative field, so I studied communications and business so that I would have my choice of working in advertising, pr, marketing, etc.

Then for awhile I wanted to be a women's studies professor. But I digress. lol

Only with a little experience and maturity did I realize what I really wanted to do, so I made a transition. In most other professions, the transition is much easier. All you need is "A DEGREE" or "EXPERIENCE" ... but this debate always comes down to, "Did you have the foresight when you were 17 to choose the right major? If not, you're s*** out of luck."

[morea]

this debate always comes down to, "Did you have the foresight when you were 17 to choose the right major? If not, you're s*** out of luck."

you're not kidding!

[CHRISGEE]

chris, I suppose it also depends on where you live and work. am sure that there are plenty of designers in NYC and other cities that would happily look down their nose at me because I have the "wrong" degree, but I have never had a potential employer question my education or my credentials. Or a client, for that matter.

Well I'm sure there are those who will look down on anyone, degree or none. Some designers look down on other designers, that's not my point.

My point is that most design firms and agencies overwhelmingly require design degrees. Individual experiences aside, I'm not sure that you would disagree with this reality in general, would you?

[D-Zine]

Honestly..it is RARE for someone at the age of 17 or even slightly older to know what their career of choice is! I knew..long before I was 17 but my God that is RARE! LOL!

I remember my first day at SCAD (for those who don't know - Savannah College of Art & Design) I was talking with a senior there. She was the one that was to show us around and everything. She asked me my major. I told her "Graphic Design" and her responce was "you'll change that, everyone changes their major!". Well..I didnt change mine, but I would say that about 90% of the people I knew changed their majors once, twice or even three times in their 4+ years of college (and some were in as long as 6 or 7 years - UNdeclared!!)

All I'm saying is its so rare for someone that young to be certain what they want to do for the rest of their life.

[morea]

I certainly don't have a huge basis for comparison because I have not looked for work with any large firms - the ones around here are mid-sized at best - and I can't vouch for any company I submitted a resume to that did not call me back...

but of the places I have *interviewed* and the employers I have talked to, not one has ever taken issue with my lack of a degree in design... it has always been all about the book, in my experience.

other important hiring criteria such as problem solving, communication, attention to detail and the like are learned in most professional environments and translate well into design.

I am certainly not AGAINST getting a degree, just pointing out that there are some valid reasons that it is not a "necessity".

[Magnus]

Everyone is focusing on degrees here...what about diplomas. I have a diploma in graphic design...

oh wait...look where I landed because of that. Someone shoot me.

Seriously, if the degree isn't all it's cracked up to me, what about getting some formal education at a college or technical school instead. I think we can all agree that there is NO ONE KEY to getting a job in GD. As such, does it really matter?

Marianna, what I would suggest is figure out what will suit you as a person teh best, financially as well as what road will give you the best options in your area. Go around to some design firms and ask them what they require. Otherwise you'll drown in all the advice that we're giving you here, and none of it may be applicable. So I'd find out exactly what the employers in your area expect up-and-coming GD'ers to have under their belts.

[CHRISGEE]

I am certainly not AGAINST getting a degree, just pointing out that there are some valid reasons that it is not a "necessity".

On that we agree. A degree is NOT necessary to do so.

It opens more opportunities in the long run, career-wise, IMO. But certainly not a necessity.

[D-Zine]

Seriously, if the degree isn't all it's cracked up to be, what about getting some formal education at a college or technical school instead. I think we can all agree that there is NO ONE KEY to getting a job in GD. As such, does it really matter?

This ^^ is great advice and what I too would suggest! Pick up some classes here and there in the areas where you feel you are weak and need help or guidance if you don't wish to obtain the degree.

Still..IMO, it all depends on what the person feels they need to succeed in the path they wish to take their career down.

[CHRISGEE]

Marianna, what I would suggest is figure out what will suit you as a person teh best, financially as well as what road will give you the best options in your area. Go around to some design firms and ask them what they require. Otherwise you'll drown in all the advice that we're giving you here, and none of it may be applicable. So I'd find out exactly what the employers in your area expect up-and-coming GD'ers to have under their belts.

That's the best advice of all!

We could all be blowin' smoke up her a**! The best advice possible is to find out what design employers are looking for. Not only in terms of design degrees -- if necessary -- but from WHERE? Which schools?

You're right, she should probably disgregard all the advice (read opinions) we've given to this point and find out from folks in her area whom she's most likle to be turning to for a paycheck.

[EC]

Seriously, if the degree isn't all it's cracked up to me, what about getting some formal education at a college or technical school instead. I think we can all agree that there is NO ONE KEY to getting a job in GD. As such, does it really matter?

This is sort of my point. I do think that *a degree* is a worthwhile endeavor. I don't know many people that say, "Gee, I'm really sorry I graduated from college." In my case, that was mostly about the football games, frat parties and 20,000 boys my age to choose from, but I digress ... lol (And, I am kidding. ...er, partly. lol)

The trend today is vocational education. A four year liberal or fine art degree is a tremendous investment, and the return is just not there anymore. It was different many years ago when I made the choice.

I would still make the same choice, but I know looking back that it takes a LONG time to catch up to a skilled/vocationally-trained worker, especially today.

So I can understand why people are hesitant when they see so many self-taughts making a decent living without all the hassle.

[Soreen Kid]

It all comes down to what you want to do. I have all sorts of qualifications, none of them have helped me what so ever. I enjoy doing higher education, that is why I do it.

It is up to the individual. Don't take advice of anonymous strangers on the internet. Get out there and fine out for yourself :)

If you don't like it... so what? It is not the end of the world.

People worry too much. Do well at school, get a degree, get a job, a morgatge and 2.3 children and drive to the supermarket on a sunday. Do what makes you happy and what you think will make you happy.

Happiness is the most important thing in life. Worry about everything else once you're happy.

[defjoe]

I can end this all right now... it's as simple as this...

killer portfolio = job!

Experience = keeping job.

look at the ads you see, even entry level. they want 2/3 years of EXPERIENCE and let me tel lyou... they mean REAL WORLD experience.

This horse has been beaten to death!

[CHRISGEE]

I can end this all right now... it's as simple as this...

killer portfolio = job!

Experience = keeping job.

look at the ads you see, even entry level. they want 2/3 years of EXPERIENCE and let me tel lyou... they mean REAL WORLD experience.

This horse has been beaten to death!

I liked the idea of going around to design firms and agencies in her area and asking their opinion. They -- not we -- are the ones who will ultimately be giving her a paycheck or not. LOL!

[D-Zine]

This horse has been beaten to death!

:D

[Neuro]

I wonder if we have scared her right out of our industry? If I was questioning things and curious...this whole thing would scare the crap out of me.

I'll stick with building my business as MY career choice. I love what I do and can make a good living doing it too. I just DO NOT think money is all of my world. I have no desire to work for a large agency. I'll stick to sitting in my undies working on a project, in the privacy of my home.

Sitting in my undies is far more valuable to me! But that's just me! LOL!

[Keyare]

I've been caught in my undies by clients far too often to call it "The privacy of my own home"

between 5 am and 1:am - either clothing mandatory or the doors get locked or you get someone else to be the designated door-answerer.

[CHRISGEE]

I wonder if we have scared her right out of our industry? If I was questioning things and curious...this whole thing would scare the crap out of me.

Me too! I'd be thinking "maybe I should go into an industry that has it's act more together!" LOL!

The one statement I heard today was that a person with a degree "expects" to be paid more. Have your money! It's only going to go towards your debt for the first, oh who knows, how many years you are out of school.

College graduates make more money than those without degrees and the GD field is no exception. And I don't remember forking over my whole check for years after graduation. I had well-paying jobs in design firms, agencies and corporations. I saved money, bought property and did all the same things most of my other fellow college grads in other industries did. Go figure. **Shrug**

I'll stick with building my business as MY career choice.

Does one really have to make a choice. Build your business or go to school? Many business owners not only have bachelor's degrees but many of them also have MBAs from business school. Law degrees. Etc.

It's not an either/or proposition. One can go to college, get a great design education, then come out of school and have the option of working in agencies or starting their own business if they like. I have done both.

I love what I do and can make a good living doing it too. I just DO NOT think money is all of my world. I have no desire to work for a large agency. I'll stick to sitting in my undies working on a project, in the privacy of my home.

Sitting in my undies is far more valuable to me! But that's just me! LOL!

Well I prefer to sit in my sweats but I digress. Once again, it's not an either/or proposition. Money or happiness. I LOVE what I do but my clients understand that I require a check in the mail following my invoices, thanks very much! LOL!

[mariana]

*grin* wow. this is such an active forum, I had no idea.

As for the being scared out of the industry, nahhh. The more that I discover, the more interesting it becomes. I should have realised this was a potential career when I started to take about as long on my essays' cover pages, as on the essay itself. (-: But, having grown up in a very 'academic' family, I don't think I ever really considered design as a career.

But seriously, many thanks for all of the advice -- not that I know what I'm going to do yet... but it's always good to hear new perspectives and not just let the same thoughts rattle around in my mind. I think at least I'll try and get in touch a few of the people I know working in NGOs and see what they say.

And start drawing... I always knew I should've stuck with it as a kid, but like I said -- academic family.

--Mariana

[CHRISGEE]

I've been caught in my undies by clients far too often to call it "The privacy of my own home"

between 5 am and 1:am - either clothing mandatory or the doors get locked or you get someone else to be the designated door-answerer.

Yeah I'm slowly kinda over the whole working from home thing. Don't get me wrong, it's great and all. Can't beat the commute! LOL!

But between my dog barking at the exact moment I have a conference call or my wife deciding that the precise moment I'm searching for a breakthrough on a design comp is the perfect time to start vacuuming.... Aarrrgh! LOL!

Also, in the next 6 months or so, we would like to at least take on a part-time consultant in an area or two and I really don't relish the idea of (a) having someone else work in my home or (b) meeting scores of candidates in my home.

Finally, home and the workplace sometimes blurr too much. I'm getting to where I'd like a bit of separation.

[Neuro]

It was a joke...geeze! Things are way too serious in here. I come to GDF for info and FUN! Why is it lately that ppl have forgotten about the FUN part?

[Kool]

We haven't forgotten, it still is fun here. Chris answers every post line by line by line by line, it wasn't personal. :cool:

[Neuro]

Oh, I understand. Just was trying to have some fun. That's all! Guess I'll put my pants back on! LOL!

[Allen Harkleroad]

I don' need no stikin' degree.

Seriously i do not have a school given degree, i do have 20+ years in the trenches design background and last year pulled down over $225,000.00 in design fees. so screw degrees and certifications, they are worth as much as the paper they are printed on. I read, learn (from GDF folks and other references). To me that is the best "schooling" you can get, that and work experience.....

Oh and CHRISGEE try turning off your caplock key for your name, uppercase sucks.

[CHRISGEE]

Oh and CHRISGEE try turning off your caplock key for your name, uppercase sucks.

How do I turn off the upper case on my name now? Used to know but everything is different now.... LOL!

[Allen Harkleroad]

Try in the UserCP link area ( U S E R C O N T R O L P A N E L)

[uncle carbunkle]

"( U S E R C O N T R O L P A N E L)"?

allen, were you mouthing that real slow AND making the hand signs for that, too?
:P

[Magnus]

lol

[Allen Harkleroad]

What can i say? Other than BooYah cooterheads.

[Allen Harkleroad]

Yes Unc, i rode the retard bus in school so i had to make sure i spelled it out properly, for the other slow folks....

[EC]

so screw degrees and certifications, they are worth as much as the paper they are printed on.

My how this debate has become so very unpleasant. This statement, I am quite sure, is offensive to some people that worked extremely hard in school.

And it's definitely debatable.

Just as self-taught people want respect from those that are traditionally trained, it works both ways. I am self-taught, but I'd never tell someone with a design degree that their diploma is equivalent to toilet paper or the price of the paper it's printed on or whatever.

I just don't understand where all this hostility comes from. Or, maybe I do.

Disappointing.

If the yardstick is what kind of salary you can pull down, then I think to tell someone that is contemplating how to break into the design industry, how to go about it, whether to choose a traditional school or not ... that you can "strike it rich" and pull down 200k+ a year & you don't need no stinkin' diploma ... is pretty bad advice imo.

Truth is, looking at industry averages, the income potential for the average person, schooled or not, comes nowhere near that. As has been said, education never hurt anyone. So, the looking down the nose at education ... well. I give up. I don't get it.

It may or may not be necessary to certain people, one way may or may not be better than another, but keep it real. Education is necessary for many, if not most people, that want to have a prosperous career in this profession.

I read, learn (from GDF folks and other references). To me that is the best "schooling" you can get, that and work experience.....

People with degrees are no different.

[Kool]

I think this topic has been discussed enough for one thread. I'm pretty sure everyones opinion has been expressed so I'm gonna shut it down before it gets out of hand. :)

Your Friendly Moderator,
Kool :cool:

[Allen Harkleroad]

it isn't so much education as it is apptitude and skills. End of conversation.