Now what did I just tell you?

[Patrick Shannon]

Friggin' salesmen, you can't get anything through their damned heads.

The short story; I'm asked (for the umteenth time) by the boss's son (salesman) if I can color seperate (as in spot colors, not CMYK) a JPEG, you all already know what my answer is going to be. My response (as always) was "Get an EPS."

So I get the job folder today with the logo apparently in a Word file and the directions say "Do the best you can in seperating this." What the hell did I just tell you? Oh, the project is for an exciting notepad......GREAT PORTFOLIO-WORTHY WORK!!!! WHOOPIE!!! (Ahem, sorry.) F**king salesmen.
I'm interested to know what you people do in this situation.

After all, if you're getting jobs right and left and you're the only single graphic designer, you don't have time to recreate every single damned logo for the prices they're looking to pay. And sometimes, recreation either cannot be done (if you don't have a certain typestyle on extremely fancy type) or the graphic you're working off of is too low in resolution to judge certain elements accurately. (Basically, it comes off looking just a little different.)

If I was to send inappropriate graphics off for printing to our outsourcing companies, they would reject it right on the spot. Do you guys do the same thing? Or do you just shut up and recreate the logo?

Of course, charging them for the extra time it takes to recreate the logo is a possibility, except that the customer is being billed only $15 for the "typesetting" on this job. And I have little to no contact with them, the front desk does. On the other hand, I now know the PrintSmith system and have been updating typesetting more accurately lately on my own...

My personal mentality on the situation is that if you start accepting this crap (even though it's not technically doable), it makes it "okay" to submit JPEGs and GIFs for printing, ya know what I mean? By rejecting this job, I send the strong statement to the idiot salesmen and perhaps might be able to "drive" it into their heads this time.

So, what would you do in my shoes? (Other than get a new job, I've already tried that)

[petchy]

if the logo is veeeery basic and it's a good size image then i'll consider tracing it, but i always emphasise to whoever that it will never be 100% accurate and unless we want trouble later ("....you guys reproduced our logo wrong, whine, whine, bla bla bla...") we need the logo in vector format. if nobody else does, i phone the company myself and explain that if they want us to be true to their brand they need to give us the tools (ie the logo) to do so.

if it's a well known brand try these

http://logotypes.designer.am/srch/search.php
http://www.brandsoftheworld.com/
http://www.allthelogos.com/
http://logo.vip.lublin.pl/

[defjoe]

salesmen are great at saying they can do anything... without consulting the designer

[Patrick Shannon]

Oh no, it's not basic (if it's ridiculously simple, then I sometimes go ahead and do it without fuss). We're talking color overlays and the whole nine hards, including some vvvveeerrryyyy fine lines. It's not a brand name company, either. If the colors didn't overlap or touch, I would simply take that JPEG and divide out the colors and have two seperate low-quality bitmaps to print from ("Give crap, get crap."), but that's not quite possible with this one.

[Kool]

The worst thing is that a lot of times you know that there is a good vector out there. It's just that the sales rep or the customer is to lazy to get it for you.

[Patrick Shannon]

Here is what I did (it goes hand to hand with what Kool just said):

I noticed that there was a sample notepad in there and took a look at that, that logo is of too good of quality to not be vector.

So I taped a sticky to the notepad, taped that to the front of the job folder and wrote "Need an EPS to seperate. (Where did this logo come from?)"

A mechanic can't work on your car if you don't bring the car to the shop!

Again addressing Kool, one time I was given a logo and the customer absolutely would not provide anything better than a heavily deterriorated JPEG. I couldn't even do it just right because I couldn't accurately judge the curves of some of the logo, it was simply mosiac pixels. They rejected the recreated logo.

A few weeks later, I was driving in Chesterfield Crossing and saw a HUUUUGE billboard from the same company with a nice, crisp logo on it.

[Keyare]

That's when it comes in handy to know everyone in the local sign shops, newspapers and other print shops. If i ever need a logo for a local company (crap quality like yours) I hop on the phone to whoever I think might have a clean copy. I give out logos to the newspapers, sign shops and other print shops too - it just makes life so much easier. And then you can go for beer with your competition and comiserate.

[Patrick Shannon]

Oh LORD....I just received this back (we're all on the same email) from one of our outsourcing companies the boss's son emailed a little while ago.....

================================
Hi *****,

I can recreate the art as a 2-color vector logo for $75.00.
Let me know.
Thanks!
*****

> On Apr 25, 2005, at 2:03 PM, **** **** Printing wrote:

> Linda,
> Can you seperate this logo into two colors?
> Let me know. This is all I have to work with.

> Thanks,

> ***** ******

[Keyare]

Proved you right to the boss's son.

[imagemaker]

You've Heard It- It's our Motto.

We the willing, are doing the impossible for the ungrateful. We have done so much for so long with so little, we are now qualified to do anything with nothing.

And the other slogan:

I know you believe you understand what you think I said, but I'm not sure you realize that what you heard is not what I meant.

Followed by:

OH S--T, You did just what I asked!

[greyghost]

Sig-worthy. :)

[Patrick Shannon]

Totally, it's godly.

[Rocketpig]

I think rejecting the job is your only option. Anytime someone gives me a GIF or JPEG, I flat-out reject it immediately.

People need to learn that those file formats are unacceptable for print, PERIOD.

Some of my freelance clients have finally figured this out... And it only took two years (or approximately 18 times the amount of time it would have taken a chimpanzee to figure it out)! :)

[D-Frag]

bah, you guys aren't thinking $$$$$ I charge them a $100 an hour, spend about 30-45 minutes tracing it out (Depending on how complicated it is) and then charge them for it.

I also mention that if they don't want to pay the $$$$$ then they can call up whoever did their business cards, and then follow that by, here is my email, have them send it to me.

and I would get used to it if I were you, I can't tell you how many times ive traced a logo, its gotta be close to a 1000 times by now

[Ryan8720]

A few months back I was redesigning my schools Web site and I needed the logo. So I ask around. No one can come up with vector. Yet there are t-shirts, posters, and even mouse pads with a nice crisp logo on them.

Ended up scanning a poster at high res and resizing it to use on the site.

[Patrick Shannon]

D-Frag: Oh, this isn't a new situation by any means, I've worked at this job for five years and have done my fair share of retracing. But you would think by now that the front desk would realize this, especially after you told them 1000 times, and warn/charge the customer accordingly for it.

[D-Zine]

That's when it comes in handy to know everyone in the local sign shops, newspapers and other print shops. If i ever need a logo for a local company (crap quality like yours) I hop on the phone to whoever I think might have a clean copy. I give out logos to the newspapers, sign shops and other print shops too - it just makes life so much easier. And then you can go for beer with your competition and comiserate.

I've just been skipping around this thread honestly, but this is really good advice. I have been doing this ^^ for about 5 years now with local businesses that are known as our competitors. Others in the office may not like it but I am the one that has to deal with crap artwork they want me to scan and download! LOL! This "trade" is like an unspoken agreement amongst designers..LOL! This way I can usually get what I need as far as logos and such from other designers if need be...and I always return the favor when I can.

[idaho]

Wait until you do a project for a commercial real estate company that wants a brochure describing the area around a specific property by using 150 logos of various national companies and all of the logos were pulled from the web. Not to mention, you don't have permission from those companies to use their logos! Aaaarrrrggggghhhhhh!!!

Ooooo...bad memories...need my meds....