I got my first freelance job. And it's a doozy.

[danedawg99]

Ok, here's what i know: The Girl Scouts of Arizona local chapter called me yesterday and asked me to design an ad/marketing campaign. I think the majority of the advertising will be posters. My question is: I'm new to the area (Tempe, AZ), and I don't know a lot about what the usual going rate is for GD work around here. I've looked at the GAG handbook and it says $30/hr plus about a 15-20% mark-up for incidentals. Being a relative greenie, (Igraduated last May,) and the fact that it's the Girl Scouts, I'm not sure I should charge them $30/hr. What do you guys think? Should I mark it down?
And also, is it common for a Graphic Designer to relegate finding a printer to the client? I know some GD'ers work exclusively with some printers, but again, I'm new to the area, and the only printers I know are the people I work for full-time and the company we outsource some of our bigger lobs to. But we only print really large format display stuff.
I have a meeting with this woman on Tuesday, and I don't want to go in looking and sounding like i have no idea what i'm talking about. Do you guys have any suggestions?
Thanks in advance...
Dane

[defjoe]

$30/hr is cheap.

but do what you think is right. you can charge them a flat rate and estimate how much time it will take you.

[morea]

agreed that $30/hr is cheap.

Also, be sure to get a contract.

[uncle carbunkle]

research your printers/brokers now. get a few contact names and samples before you go into your meeting.

[danedawg99]

$30/hr is cheap? wow. I had no idea. this is the kind of stuff i could have used in school...

thanks everybody!

[orangeena]

$30 per hour is way cheap. In the cleveland, ohio area, rates range from about 65-85, especially for full campaign work.

Keep in mind that just because its a non-profit, doesn't mean they should get a better rate. If you do decide to give them a better rate, make sure they clearly understand the actual, undiscounted value of the work that they are getting and exactly what rate they can expect on future jobs. Discounts are tricky. Unless you iron this out very specifically, you could end up working with them on-going at a rate that you resent...or worse...losing a client (and their referrals) when they get blindsided by your rate hike.

Then there is the sticky situation of their referrals expecting the same low rate... Discounts can turn into a big mess. be careful.

If you really aren't sure what the going rate is, you can always call a few design firms in the area and ask them what they would charge for a full campain. Pretend you're a perpective client on a budget. Ask them how much they charge and how many hours they estimate. You wouldn't have the overhead they do, so knock a little off of that hourly rate and there you go!

good luck

[danedawg99]

thanks, orangeena! good ideas/points there!
on a side note; why is the GAG handbook so far off? hmmm. :confused:

[harpdog]

OK! This is a problem with most freelancers that I talk to... Stop selling yourself on the dollar value of your work. Sell yourself to the client on the fact that you’re going to do something great for them. The value of a client getting a piece of work developed that will increase the response of the viewer is nothing compared to the dollar value of the work.



EXAMPLE sell yourself at 50$ per hour. But don’t start off telling them the dollar value, start of by telling them your vision and that you’re going to give them a great design concept to further the foundation! GET THEM EXCITED! Its very simple if you are confident in the work you can provide them. Sell them on your ability to make them look great... at the end give them a overall price for the work, and for god sakes don't second guess yourself. People outside the design world will pick up on a uncertain and non-confident designer and cut them down, or look to getting it done somewhere else.



You will have to plan your approach, your vision, your confidence, your ability to do something great… and at the end you let them know “and this is what it will cost you” period.




MY POINT! 50$ an hour for great work that will increase the organizations overall appearance... If they know there going to get great work, the money will be a non-issue.

[harpdog]

One more thing! DO NOT FLINCH WHEN YOU TELL THEM THE PRICE better yet get it on paper with the deliverables and the work your going to provide, dollar value at the bottom.




It will make it easier for you! And you can hold your ground! If they wont to negotiate which ALL smart business people do! Back yourself up by going over the project and the value of the service... hold strong to your decision and if your think you will loose the client get the out of there as fast as you can and ask for a second appointment to crunch some numbers!... don’t make a impulsive price cut, your will just screw yourself in the end.

[imagemaker]

Danedawg-

I am in Phoenix. If you'd like, Private Message me and I'll send you my phone number and we can meet and chat about the market here and some pricing.

Can't really say that I am a Big Success at freelancing, but I don't like to price 'by the hour'. I will estimate times and apply different scales. Creativity goes 60-75 per hour, (Client has an idea what they need, but not a clue to anything else). Layout, is something different, not so much brain as ability, (Client has a rough idea and thumbnail layout). And there is straight production (here are pictures, scripts, and format/template-make it fit).

What we can't lose sight of is the value of the piece beyond the price of what it took to make. The sum being equal to more than the collection of parts. All other parameters being equal, if you spend three hours on a black & white ad for the dry-cleaner down the street for a neighborhood publication, and three hours for a same size black and white ad for another cleaner to run in the major newspaper are they of the same value? Would you charge the same? You would PAY differently to use a stock photo because of the difference in exposure to the ad. One is seen by 1000 households, and one is seen by 1,000,000 households. One generates $1000 a month in revenue, and one brings in $500,000. Both are relatively small, private owned business.

That intangible 'how much value is there to the impact on my clients revenue' gets lost very often.

It may be no extra material, time, energy, effort or work, but if you want your 1-color logo added to your FastSign®, you pay a $25 fee to import art, and a 10% up charge on the sign to have something other than text. BECAUSE THE VALUE OF A PROSPECT SEEING YOUR LOGO ART ALONG WITH THE TEXT IS GREATER THAN SEEING YOUR NAME ALONE. The image draws attention, may be more recognizable, and more memorable to the people that see it. Estimate a value based on expected increase in client revenue, exposure, and opportunity.

MP2U! (More power to you!)

[Image]

$30.00, wow.


I think the least I ever worked for was $110.00, and that's when I just started.



Course, this is Las Vegas...

[imagemaker]

Don't forget that YOUR own fee per hour is also:
- time at the computer
- cost of the hardware/software
- driving time back and forth to the customer/vendors/etc.
- meetings and phone calls
- utility bills (phone, elect, ISP, etc.)
- invoicing/bank deposits/tax filing
- proofing and revisions

So two hours of $100/hr for design ends up less when it takes another hour and a half or two hours to attend to the 'business' of making that initial $200.

So what you CHARGE is not necessarily what you MAKE.

[danedawg99]

Harpdog, Thanks. Good points. the deal with this is that she knows she'll be getting a good product. I've done some work for her through my full-time job, but they don't handle the kind of work she needs done now, and the don;t have a designer on staff. I think what i'll probably do is go in to the first meeting with some rough sketches and a 'sample contract' and my portfolio. Is this a good idea?

Imagemaker,
yeah near as i can tell, this is gonna be creativity and layout. From doing to illustrations/design to designing the camera readies. My teachers all told me to do an flat estimated fee, based on an hourly rate, I just don;t know how to start that.

thanks again, all!