How to design a print friendly poster

[ChristianPelletier]

Hi.

I have a few qestions for you graphically designerly human beings. I have to design a poster (10x20 inchs) that will be sent to the printers for professionnal printing. And I had a few questions that I was hoping you would be able to answer. I'm used to desging for web so doing the jump to print designs carrys a few questions. Here I go!

1) When designing ads of this form (posters, pamphlets, newspaper ads, etc) is it safer to design in Illustrator or Photoshop or to jump between both? I'm always afraid to do printable designs in Photoshop for fear of the dreaded pixels showing.

2) When designing stuff that will be sent off to the printers, what is an ideal DPI?

3) Is there specific thing I should do to setup my workplace in Photoshop or Illustrator in order to amke it easier for the printers and for me (crop lines, etc)?

4) What is an ideal format to send the finalized product in? PDF? EPS? Huge JPG?

I reallize some of these questions might sound stupid but I'm taking my chances. Instead doing things wrong I'd rather ask and learn and figure it out the right way.

I really appreciate your help in advance. If the answers to these questions are located on another site that I probobly didnt visit, feel free to send me the links.

Thanks again...


Christian Pelletier
www.tagueule.ca (http://www.tagueule.ca)

[Broacher]

>>I'm always afraid to do printable designs in Photoshop for fear of the dreaded pixels showing.<<

Just last night I had a pixel reveal itself to me while waiting for a bus. It was disgusting!

>>When designing stuff that will be sent off to the printers, what is an ideal DPI?<<

Stick to .01 DPI. It's far more predictable.

>>Is there specific thing I should do to setup my workplace in Photoshop or Illustrator in order to amke it easier for the printers and for me (crop lines, etc)?<<

Yes. Be sure you cut out the part on the side of the software packages that describes how you no longer need a designer to do professional graphic design. Then tape this, or scan this, when sending your stuff to the printer. They'll really appreciate the headsup info of what to expect.

>>What is an ideal format to send the finalized product in? PDF? EPS? Huge JPG?<<

Microsoft Paint is prefered by most commercial printers, though some now accept lino-cuts as well.

>>I reallize some of these questions might sound stupid but I'm taking my chances.<<

Chances that you might sound stupid?

>>Instead doing things wrong I'd rather ask and learn and figure it out the right way<<

Or, maybe do the right thing and pay for someone who's already figured out the right way, long ago?

Best of luck.

[ChristianPelletier]

Post edited:

That was really uncalled for Broacher.
This is a place to learn.

Your friendly moderator, Kool
I'm guessing I missed out on some nasty comment there. Damn.

[morea]

Hi Christian, welcome to GDF!

The best way to determine how to set up your file is to talk to your printer ahead of time... they may have a preferred file format or some special instructions that will save you time in the long run.

Here is a great article about building a relationship with your printer:
http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/articles/printer_relationship.htm

[morea]

In my experience, pdf files are the most universally accepted, and if you will be using a combination of Illustrator and Photoshop you might want to do the actual layout in Adobe InDesign (if you have it). You can export a pdf directly from ID when you are ready to print.

Good luck!

[Broacher]

Sorry, I keep forgetting some people actually have skin thinner than mine. My point is that coming here looking for instruction on how to do the job we 'designerly human beings' do after much training and real hard work reveals a low level of respect for us. (Designerly human beings? It sounds like some kind of genetic mutation.)

Especially when it's implied that only a modest 4 questions is all that is necessary to guarantee good poster reproduction.

A student, or a beginner-- different story. But this sounds like a small business person who's either too gullible to not believe in the software package hype, or someone happy to avoid paying for a designer. Why should we support this? I'm missing something big here about why bypassing a designer is an acceptable solution.

(Do I get any points for not using any bad words? And hey... I thought my dpi answer was fun!)

[kovachjon]

I AM a printer.
I might be the only large format screen and digital printer in here, I'm not sure though.
Let's see if I can help.

1) ILLUSTRATOR. Use Illustrator. Don't jump back and forth unless you have images or something to place into Illustrator. For consistent color and predictable (and easily editable/fixable.... and all the other -ables) use Illustrator. Spec PMS colors, too. (Or whatever your printer wants). Outline fonts when you send the final version. Or send the fonts. Don't expecte spot colors in Photoshop to match spot colors in Illustrator, cause they won't!

2) check with your printer on this one. We print everything at 150ppi. Billboards are around 37ppi, I think. It depends on how far away you'll be from the poster. Most printshops operate between 100 and 200ppi. Only fine art photography is at 300ppi anymore, in my opinion and experience. BTW, DPI is a printer measurement. Printers print at dpi, or dots per inch. PPI is pixels per inch - this is what relates to your raster images.

3) You can set bleed (we use 1/4" bleed) and set crop marks. In Illustrator, make sure you set your page size to what the final poster size should be, then put your bleed outside of that. You can have the program set crop marks - select nothing, then go to the edit menu (I think) and down to add crop marks. I'm not looking at Illustrator right now, so someone correct me if that is inaccurate.

4) JPG? Ack ack! PDF and EPS are best, however EPS cannot carry color management with it. I suggest talking to the printer. We like to get the original files to print from, then we can decide what is best for every job. Illustrator files are easy to print. A lot of shops take PDF as a standard, but they are uneditable. Makes some things tough.

These questions are not stupid.
In fact, you are very smart for asking these things in advance. Too many times do we get crap files that we can't do a thing with, and if only the customer talked to us beforehand, it would have been avoided. Remember, garbage in, garbage out!!!!!!
My only other advice would be to talk to the printer before you start, or if that isn't possible, talk to them ASAP. Every shop has different requirements and requests.
Good luck, hope this helps!!

p.s. What kind of posters? can I see? :D

Jon

[uncle carbunkle]

welcome to the forum, kovachjon. thanks for taking the time to reply.

[ChristianPelletier]

Thanks kovachjon (http://member.php?u=6197) and morea (http://member.php?u=2697) for your help. Greatly appreciated. As for Broacher, I would've liked to read your comment. Seemed pretty funny.

Sorry if we amateurs are making things tuffer for you but if I can pay for the program and do the design myself and make it come out like I want it too, I'll do that. Saves me money and I'm not really cheating.

I'm talking a poster here not a phonebook, I personnaly don't need to hire a professionnal graphic designer for a simple poster. In fact last time I hired a professionnal gd to make a poster, it wasnt all that nice. Me and my 5 amateur years of learning by trial and error, asking questions and taking a few basic gd classes can do something thats more visually attractive.

Anyways, thanks to those who are helping me out. I appreciate it!

[Kool]

Brocher's post has been restored.

Excuse me for trying to keep the forum a friendly place.

[ChristianPelletier]

Brocher's post has been restored.

Excuse me for trying to keep the forum a friendly place.

I was playing his game a bit. You didn't necessarily need to restore it. I was being sarcastic about liking to read it. I don't need to be a "professionnal" graphic designer to be sarcastic.

Funny jokes Broacher. I laughed. That's a good sign. Fortunately, even if the post would've said there, I'm not stupid enough to take any of that crap. But thanks for the laugh, made my four "stupid questions" worthwhile asking.

[Eggles1]

Most printshops operate between 100 and 200ppi. Only fine art photography is at 300ppi anymore, in my opinion and experience.

Apart from the above statement, your advice was very good. But your first statement "Most printshops operate between 100 and 200ppi" I must disagree with. Most offset printing is done at 300 dpi - any lower and pixels become obvious. But then again, I assume you were referring to large format printers? Fine art photography is usually done at higher resolutions than 300 dpi as the line screens are that much higher, usually 175 to 200 lpi, with a recommended resolution of 350 to 400 dpi for images.

[Broacher]

>>Funny jokes Broacher. I laughed. That's a good sign.<<

Thanks. I appreciate your attitude. I don't know-- we all work with pros outside of our own profession all the time. I mean, I was at the mechanic last week trying to describe to him what I 'thought' might be wrong with my car, and it was all he could do to keep from bursting out loud laughing. In fact, he did have a little fun at my expense but I didn't mind--in fact, I laughed along (and pointed out his pathetic business card)-- it's part of building up the trust relationship between client and professional. I feel very confident that HE knows what he's doing and I'm very happy with that feeling.

And hey, for car stuff I quite often take advantage of online mechanic forums for determining the best follow-through on a vehicle purchase, or repair. Most of the time, the main question is-- should I take it in, or is this something real easy to do?

Maybe when they finally come out with Adobe-Brakeshop or CorelMuffle I'll be tempted to try these expensive repairs myself, but... probably not.

And yesterday I 'spent' over two hours training a worker in another department teaching the bare basics of page layout design all the while thinking, 'why don't I just do this myself?'. I mean, she really appreciated the session, but it made me wonder why is design, as a professional skill, so 'give-away-able' in so many people's eyes?

So I apologize for my curtness. The truth is, just about anyone can take just about anything these days and make it into a poster at just about any printshop. Sure, design quality is usually important-- but sometimes, it's important to be absent. I tend to stop for the garage sale advertised with a sign using scrawled black marker on a piece of brown cardboard stapled to a telephone pole, than I would for a professional looking 'kit' sale. Why? It's a question of authenticity-- and that becomes a form and function question. Which is what I would have asked you about first, if you walked into my office. It's not who makes it, or with what tool, or at what degree of 'professionalism'-- it's WHY are you making it, and what do we have to work with that starts the design gears turning. You odds of success are (I think) much better with a pro designer, but only if you can't afford to know the true value of any errors you might not even know you're making. It's like-- if my car engine starts making a funny noise, and I tap it with a wrench and it goes away, I can choose to slowly close the hood, and convince myself to feel confident in my mechanical abilities-- or lose sleep over wondering what's really wrong.

>>I'm talking a poster here not a phonebook, I personnaly don't need to hire a professionnal graphic designer for a simple poster.<<

Now I'm LOL! Most designers I know roll their eyes at the words 'phonebook' and graphic design being used in the same sentence. As for simple posters-- hold onto that thought. That is, a great poster design always looks so simple. But then, most things skillfully done always do.

[Broacher]

>>Excuse me for trying to keep the forum a friendly place.<<

Kool, I appreciate your concern, and understand your reasons for preferring cautious preventive censorship over the riskier fineline of my sarcasm. In this case, we seem to have sailed through it without loss of limb, and perhaps just a little more stronger.

I'm on a lot of design forums. This one rates as perhaps no. 2 in the area of 'most cautious' on the 'release the moderators' button. The other extreme-- un-moderated, well... we probably all have enough bad experiences with these to believe they're hardly ever worth it. But I would strongly disagree. Some of the BEST stuff I've ever learned about techniques, hardware, design and business have come from places where it is a free-for-all. Yep, many of these burned out quickly, but a rare few have matured. The HOW forums is a great positive example of what CAN happen to an unmoderated forum's evloution when the 'neighbourhood' hits a good mix. Sure, it's not perfect, but it's honestly so. And yes, there have been fights among neighbours, drive-by shootings-- but with a large enough core or regulars, who share enough respect for each other, it not only survived, but became stronger, in many ways.

It's not necessarily a bad thing to have moderators-- they're very useful and effective 'fire extinguishers' for when things get hot, real fast. But sometimes, they're a bit like my smoke detector in my upstairs hall, going off when I open the oven to flip my fries. I bet it's a pretty thankless task sometimes, and you're right to be cautious, only I hope you folks do discuss at least the possibility that a little friendliness can be sacrificed for a little more truth. Because even though the truth is often unbelievably cruel, it also gives us the strength and courage to understand and grow. At least, I think so.

[PrintDriver]

Kovachjon you aren't the only wide format guy here.
A 10" x 20" poster barely qualifies as large format. The person in the original post REALLY NEEDS TO TALK TO THE PRINTER THEY INTEND TO USE. While the wide format people do work anywhere from 15 to 200dpi, like Eggles said, most regular printers want at least 300. I would require at least 200 dpi when doing a poster this small on an HP5500 just because the image is small.

As for using Illy or Photoshop. You can place photoshop images into Illustrator as long as they are at the resolution your printer wants them at AT FINAL PRINT SIZE. Place is operative. Do Not embed them.

Broacher I'm with you, man. All the way.

[ChristianPelletier]

The person in the original post REALLY NEEDS TO TALK TO THE PRINTER THEY INTEND TO USE.

I will do that of course. I just wanted to check if there was any other things to check first and now I know the right questions to ask.

And Broacher, I too agree with you for the unmoderated forums. It's like a real discussion, you can't censure some random comment that someone yells at you. And you end up learning more and having stronger convictions that way. I own an unmoderater, uncensored, open-type forum aswell and it does give way to very interesting discussions that wouldn't happen otherwise.

And for the phonebook example (!) it was just the first thing that came to my head.

[Kool]

Broacher, I have edited or "censored" as you put it a grand total of 1 post in as far back as I can remember, that being this one. I did it for one reason only and that is because I also frequent a lot of other forums and I have seen time after time a new person post a perfectly legitimate question only to be pounced on by one or more regulars who don't believe the question worthy of their giving it a real response. I believe that in a lot of these cases the original poster leaves never to return and the forum is deprived of whatever positive things that person may have contributed in the future. In this case we had a person who clearly stated that he was more familiar with web design and need to learn some things about the print side of things. I'm the opposite side of that coin in that I don't know squat about web design but I would like to think that if I should ever decide to venture into it I could ask a few basic questions without being subject to a "sarcastic" reply like yours. Obviously in this case my stepping in was unnecessary which is the reason I restored your post.

I'm sorry you think this forum is over moderated. I wish you would provide some examples because we very, very rarely step into controversial threads and when we do it's only to try and tone down personal attacks. Read some of the political theamed threads that ran just prior to last years election if you don't believe me. I also wish you would explain to me the correlation between unmoderated free for alls and the quality of the advice received because you lost me on that one.

[Kool]

Orrr... my reply in the brutally honest method you guys seem to prefer.

I edited your post because you were acting like a horses a$$. You didn't really read his post carefully, jumped to the conclusion that he was a total noobe and decided he needed a little flaming.

Personally I prefer my first post. :D

[Broacher]

>>I'm sorry you think this forum is over moderated<<

Kool, you're reading too much into what I said. I think you're 'moderately moderated'. And when I have seen you guys do this (wow, I'm your first? I feel... I feel... nasty!), it's always been with thoughtful discretion. I don't object to what you did to my post-- heck, take it off again if you feel more comfortable. And I know what you're saying about politics, religion, platform choice... and other highly polarized subjects which create tensions. But realistically, the group here is pretty tight knit and respectful enough to hang together through that stuff. But if the concern is the new visitor... um, here's where I might have a difference of opinion.

See, the real difference between this and many other design forums that I've noticed is the absence of any real critique section. I mean, the 'Showcase' section is a nice idea, in a way, but I know it's not for real critiquing. If you want a topic too dangerous for discussion, crit sections are hard to beat. 'Not safe for the health of your ego' might be the subtitle if you ever decide to go that route.

I mean, I understand why you guys have decided against that-- but in a way, it's a sad reminder to me of how much has changed in design since I started so many years ago. For me, anyhow, genuine designer to designer open crits are perhaps the most valuable thing I've ever experienced in my training and career. And the fact that my work is no longer postable at all (it's in the job description!) makes me lament my state of non-participation.

I guess I better go back and read the mission statement about this forum. I sense that what makes it unique is that it hopes to be more inclusive to the non-designing community than other forums I'm used to. I've always felt good about sharing what experience I have with other designers and students as a way of paying back to those who were just as generous to me in my greener years.

But I've also seen a lot of forum time over the years and a recurring sorepoint for me is dealing with those bungee posters who often see designers as expensive middle-people on the road to production, and this forum a convenient place to jump in and get the answer and not bother to pay back.

That's why I get sarcastic and trigger happy around requests for info from non-designers who enter with a sort of "this isn't worth talking to a designer first about" attitude. I bristle because all I can think about is all those design school grads, struggling to find any kind of work to pay the bills, and here we are helping out what otherwise, might be their potential clients. Guess I'm not as thick-skinned as I thought-- at least on that front. To the great credit of this forum, I do like the posted warning about not looking here for free work such as those speculative logo contest things.

But let's talk about advice then-- if we're willing to give away detailed, technical production information to non-designers here (or any other forum), what does it take, or where does it happen (if it does) that we are actually, working for 'spec'? Has there ever been a detailed discussion here on that? Is that what we're doing? Is that what we want? Or need? Just curious.

[Kool]

Kool, you're reading too much into what I said

Well lets take a look at what you said.

It's not necessarily a bad thing to have moderators-- they're very useful and effective 'fire extinguishers' for when things get hot, real fast. But sometimes, they're a bit like my smoke detector in my upstairs hall, going off when I open the oven to flip my fries.

I hope not all our members consider me just a necessary annoyance. But that's your opinion and I have no problem with it. I guess the thing that really kind of bothered me was this:


Broacher I'm with you, man. All the way.

I found this a little bit of an odd thing for a fellow moderator and "friend" to say.

See, the real difference between this and many other design forums that I've noticed is the absence of any real critique section. I mean, the 'Showcase' section is a nice idea, in a way, but I know it's not for real critiquing. If you want a topic too dangerous for discussion, crit sections are hard to beat. 'Not safe for the health of your ego' might be the subtitle if you ever decide to go that route.

I mean, I understand why you guys have decided against that-- but in a way, it's a sad reminder to me of how much has changed in design since I started so many years ago. For me, anyhow, genuine designer to designer open crits are perhaps the most valuable thing I've ever experienced in my training and career. And the fact that my work is no longer postable at all (it's in the job description!) makes me lament my state of non-participation.

Again you lost me here. People post their work in the showcase and other people critique it. What constitutes a "real" critique section? And why does a critique need to be "Not safe for the health of your ego" I have never found it necessary to destroy someone's ego when criticizing their work. I consider it a plus that most of our members are able to offer constructive criticism without resorting to the common "It sucks" so prevalent in those other forums you admire so much. I'm also confused by your assertion that our critiques are less honest because they are not mean. Our mission statement is really simple. Treat people with respect no matter what their level of experience is. Don't say anything hidden behind the anonymity of a forum handle that you wouldn't say to them face to face.

But I've also seen a lot of forum time over the years and a recurring sorepoint for me is dealing with those bungee posters who often see designers as expensive middle-people on the road to production, and this forum a convenient place to jump in and get the answer and not bother to pay back.

I'm with you here. There is a moderator access only section here called "The Graveyard" where we put the more blatant posts of this sort in. Most of the time the regular members never even see them and we average about a half a dozen of them a week. The ones that don't quite qualify for removal I deal with by ignoring them and not answering them. It's really all I can do. I could flame them but then people get on my case about being to negative. If others choose to answer them what can I do? Delete their answers? Then people would accuse me of censorship.

That's why I get sarcastic and trigger happy around requests for info from non-designers who enter with a sort of "this isn't worth talking to a designer first about" attitude. I bristle because all I can think about is all those design school grads, struggling to find any kind of work to pay the bills, and here we are helping out what otherwise, might be their potential clients. Guess I'm not as thick-skinned as I thought-- at least on that front. To the great credit of this forum, I do like the posted warning about not looking here for free work such as those speculative logo contest things.

Does someone who has taught themselves web design, as is the case in this thread, qualify as a "non-designer"? That's really what has really bothered me the most about this whole thread. When I do something dumb, and I do dumb things all the time, I admit it. That's what you did in this case. You didn't read the first post very carefully and jumped to the conclusion that he was one of those "bungee posters" you and I hate so much. Through all the many words you have posted here, all the ways you have steered this away from the original topic I have been waiting for that admission and it never came. The extremely high respect I have for you has dropped a bit because of this. It's still very high but not at the level it was before. Whether this matters to you in the least I don't know but at least it's honest.

[Broacher]

Kool... yi.

Listen, to tell you the truth... if I really cared that much of exactly where I ranked within your personal respect standings, I wouldn't have said anything. See? This really reflects what I was trying to say--how do we get any professional growth while worrying about whether or not we're offending someone else's sensibilities? Do you care what I think about you? Should it matter that much if we're talking about professional issues? You want to go through the 'you-said/I-said' thing? Fine. Notice the word 'sometimes' in my answer? Did I use the word 'annoyance'? It was just a fun little metaphor-- relax! Man, I think you're too wrapped up in this moderator role, if you want the honest truth. And attacking PrintDriver for supporting my side? C'mon! Here you go again! You can't play 'likes and dislikes' with the members when it comes to discussing professional opinions--right or wrong. That's, that's high school!

What's the big deal with someone saying, in this case, I side with this member, or that one? Agreeing to disagree is an honourable position--claiming personal injury and loss of friendship is, I'm sorry to say this, a far less honourable tactic.

Check how I came in on this forum. My first post was a solid sediment disturbance on the use of copyrighted avatar. I wanted to see just how tolerant this place was to outside opinion. Forums can go stale when they get too inbred and self-aware, or when members become too familar and then afraid to hurt anyone's feelings. I'm not advocating virtual napalm-- just beware of the dangers of complacent familiarity.

Now I know I have a reputation for sarcasm, but mostly it's contained within a decently generous amount of shared technical support. But I expect to be able to express my opinions on non-technical aspects too--without fear of ostracization or cracking too many eggshells.

>>People post their work in the showcase and other people critique it.<<

IMHO, other people mostly smile and say 'that's nice'. Or maybe they really mean it. I don't know. It's a far lower bar than what I've seen in other places. But, maybe that's the large student content here? I really don't know.

>>What constitutes a "real" critique section?<<

That I'd like to know too. It's extremely difficult to have an 'open' crit section with experience from all levels mixed together without hurting feelings.

"And why does a critique need to be "Not safe for the health of your ego" I have never found it necessary to destroy someone's ego when criticizing their work."

Nor I. But I have found it necessary to challenge their ego to make them accept what is fair criticism. There's a huge range between challenge and destroy. Exceptionally difficult with text only to convey the message.

>>I consider it a plus that most of our members are able to offer constructive criticism without resorting to the common "It sucks" so prevalent in those other forums you admire so much.<<

Did I say other forums have solved this? No. They haven't. But I have read some great crits on occassion that get very heated and STAY within the objective, the 'nothing personal' envelope, and professional manners.

>>I'm also confused by your assertion that our critiques are less honest because they are not mean. Our mission statement is really simple. Treat people with respect no matter what their level of experience is. Don't say anything hidden behind the anonymity of a forum handle that you wouldn't say to them face to face.<<

Where did I say mean? I just they're not honest enough because people are afraid of appearing mean. If we can't get past that, I say just have a gallery where people can look but not comment.

Okay, one more, and then if we go any further with this... let's take it out of this thread.

>>Does someone who has taught themselves web design, as is the case in this thread, qualify as a "non-designer"? That's really what has really bothered me the most about this whole thread. When I do something dumb, and I do dumb things all the time, I admit it. That's what you did in this case. You didn't read the first post very carefully and jumped to the conclusion that he was one of those "bungee posters" you and I hate so much. Through all the many words you have posted here, all the ways you have steered this away from the original topic I have been waiting for that admission and it never came.<<

Man I don't know what you're on about here. I honestly didn't even know that's what you did or how you were trained. I just think of you as a fellow working pro designer, and I never questioned it. To be honest, I rarely read profiles or pay attention to avatar tags.

Do I care if you were self-taught? Or that you're in web design? Um... no. Should I? Maybe Chris Gee's questions a week or so ago about what makes a pro a pro was more relevant than I gave it credit for. The only thing I really care about, as far as my relationship with you, is that we share a common belief that a forum is primarily a resource for developing professional growth and growth of the profession.

I don't regret blasting the starter of this thread (see? I can't even remember that guy's name!) for jumping in here with what I STILL perceive as a bypass around paying a pro designer to do the work properly. He deserved some kind of wrist slap for that. I admitted I over-reacted too sarcastically-- but is that bad? Can't I defend my profession from those who think poster design is not much more than just a technical exercise? I take offense from that attitude. In person, I would have been far more diplomatic-- but here, in this 'virtual water cooler' I'm far more apt to roll my eyes and start shooting first.

For that guy, I would recommend next time to consider giving us a little more background as to why you would prefer to do it yourself, and phrase things a little more respectfully.

Respectfully yours,

-Broacher

[Kool]

I actually do care about how people who I respect feel about me.

I wasn't talking about myself in my last paragraph. I was talking about the original poster.

I'm used to desging for web so doing the jump to print designs carrys a few questions. Here I go!

Kind of shines a whole new light to everything you've said in this thread huh?

[Kool]

On the subject of my last paragraph, I shouldn't have included it. It was one of those dumb things that I do regularly.

[morea]

Why do we take the time to write the New Use FAQ's, knowing full well that nobody is going to read them?

The "rules" here are really very simple… treat others with respect, and you will be treated with respect.

The reasoning behind this is that we have members from all walks of life on board here, with very different levels of experience, and the GDF is meant to be a place for people to learn and share.

POLITENESS. Anyone can be rude, but real professionals are polite and courteous. Polite courtesy is something we have all probably found lacking at one time or place. This does not have to be the case at GDF. A little bit of effort on your part to be polite and courteous will not only ensure people interact with each other in a friendly manner, but it will set a good example for other members.

And as professionals, we SHOULD care about what others think about us, shouldn't we? Then again, I may just be too wrapped up in this moderator role.

[tZ]

I agree with broacher.

Non designers who own photoshop seem to think they hit the holy grail.

I do get sick of it.. but thats life.

A grave many do think its just a technical exercise, but many of other professionals( laywers, medical doctors, etc) just don't have the time to play around with design software. o

Good thing to... or the profession would be in a world of hurt.

They also have the sort of budget that allows for professional design work.

so why not

In contrast, a mother at home does not have the kind of budget that would be worth putting into a professional garage sale advertisment.

They may also have the time to put into the "technical practice".

Unlike profesionals mentioned above who do not.

so they hire someone