Illustrator PDF's (Transparency Issues)

[mrgloop]

When I "Save As" PDF documents and send the file to the printer, I receive phone calls from disgruntled Prepress folk who say "You're file is corrupted" or "Your transparencies get messed up in the rip" or "What program did you use to design this ad?"

I understand the ripping process, outlines, links, etc... but why can't my PDF that is FULLY readable on everybody's Acrobat (even Windows users) become fully readable printed material? Is it my job to make sure that the Prepress folk don't have to tweak? Believe me, I would like to make it easier on the prepress folk... But when I flatten or rasterize my transparencies, I still get errors. What's the solution? How can I simply give a PDF file to the prepress folk and not worry about a return phone call?

I'd like someone who has more experience with this issue enlighten me. :confused:

[Broacher]

If you've ever worked on a publication of any size and had to deal with ad submissions, you'd probably never ask this question. I believe that the onus is on the designer to handoff files that represent minimum delay risks for the publisher. We send ads all over the world, often to presses and RIPs that are completely anonymous. You bet I don't want a call back, or worse-- a rasterized in Photoshop solution. The thing with ads is to learn how to knock things back to the lowest common denominator, which at this stage, for me, is either an EPS level 2, or PDF Acrobat 4. Flattened. If I can, I preflatten (usually a copy) of the approved ad right in AI (or Corel, where I also work). This makes for generally smaller, and more reliable files.

How are you creating the final PDFs?

[jimking]

The beauty of Acrobat Reader is that you can VIEW graphics clearly at a small file size.This does not mean the Ill. files are correct or the Photoshop res is correct or even your fonts are embedded. The reason the prepress people are asking you what you designed your ads in is to see if you made the PDF correctly. Acrobat does this differently with different software. For example--you print to make a PDF in WORD than optimized for press or printing--Quark 4 and 5 have plug-ins. Acrobat 7 has very good trouble shooting features built in, it's worth the price.

[mrgloop]

I DO NOT want to be limited in my designing just because I have to please the printers with an "easy to understand" document. If I want transparencies, I want the ability to use them.

After getting the look I want (I don't do any specific setting after the immediate creation of transparencies, graphics, etc)... I then save as a PDF...

...I have a cusom PDF preset that includes the following commands: (after doing this preset, I send the PDF to the printers). Tell me where I'm going wrong...

General
Compatibility: Acrobat 6 (PDF 1.5)
Preserve Illustrator Editing Capabilities: Off
Embed Page Thumbnails: On
Optimize for Fast Web View: Off
View PDF File after Saving: On
Create Acrobat Layers: Off

Compression
Color Bitmap Images:
No Sampling Change
Compression: Automatic (JPEG)
Image Quality: Maximum
Grayscale Bitmap Images:
No Sampling Change
Compression: Automatic (JPEG)
Image Quality: Maximum
Monochrome Bitmap Images:
No Sampling Change
Compression: CCITT Group 4
Compress Text and Line Art: On

Marks & Bleeds
Trim Marks: Off
Registration Marks: Off
Color Bars: Off
Page Information: Off
Printer Mark Type: Roman
Trim Mark Weight: 0.003 in
Offset from Artboard: 0.083 in
Bleed Left: 0 in
Bleed Bottom: 0 in
Bleed Right: 0 in
Bleed Top: 0 in

Advanced
Include ICC Profiles: Off
Subset embedded fonts below: 100 %

Security
Document Open Password: Off
Permissions Password: Off
Encryption Level: High (128-bit RC4) - Acrobat 5 and later

Could my problem be lie with the fact that I'm not saving as PDF 1.3, thus haulting my ability flatten transparencies? :)

[jimking]

Keep in mind that there are design parameters that one needs to follow when designing for printing. I can't tell you why you're having a problem with trans. There is a couple of things I've noticed --embed ALL fonts and if there are bleeds you need to place .125 bleed where needed. If you'd like, email me one of your PDFs and I'll trouble shoot it for you. I've been in the printing field for 33 years.

[mrgloop]

I do include bleeds, I do embed all fonts. I have recently had a prepressman tell me about the PDF x-1a format... I've been trying to verify documents in Acrobat, and I keep failing.

[Broacher]

>>I DO NOT want to be limited in my designing just because I have to please the printers with an "easy to understand" document. If I want transparencies, I want the ability to use them.<<

I'm not saying don't use transparency-- only learn to use them wisely, and learn to hand them off to minimize problems in prepress. And don't underestimate the return on 'pleasing the printer'. If you find a really good printer, and develop a good handoff workflow with him/her, then when the crunch times come (and we all know they do), that's the guy who's going to say yes to a super rush job because of the confidence in the files you're submitting to NOT cause delay.

The first step is to talk to your printer's prepress manager or your publication prepress manager, if possible. Some printers actually prefer unflattened files as it allow them to make corrections/adjustment that simply are not possible with pre-flattened files. The flipside is that I prefer to know that my printer CANNOT make any changes (not without a lot of effort) after handoff. Especially the anonymous ones! Which is why I always make it abundantly clear that if the person handling my files has ANY problems, to contact me immediately to discuss.

And yes, moving from Acrobat 5 to Acrobat 4 as the choice in output (Acrobat 1.3 level), will force out the transparencies.

You do know to keep all objects in a file with transparency (this includes drop shadows and feathered type) on a separate, bottom layer? If you get too close with a transparent object to a vector object on the same layer, the object will be rasterized in the flattening as there really is NO true transparency support in postscript. Type is particluarly noticeable when rasterized as appearing 'thicker'.

Yes, as soon as you select Acrobat 4 as your target PDF, provided your document contains transparent objects, you will then get access to the flattener controls.

A note: if you use AI's internal flattener first, and then rasterize the results together as much as possible, you'll gain significant savings in file size, and processing.

[rickself]

I've been in digital prepress for 15+ years. I have yet to understand, with high speed connections, ftp sites, even burning to a cd and taking an extra day for delivery...give me the native file and your job has a 99.9% chance of printing correctly.

I am a professional, just like you, the designer. I am not going to screw with your file. Embed your fonts or convert them to outlines. Embed your images. Remove the 117+ unused colors in your color pallette.

When a designer sends me a 4/4 175 line print job and it amounts to a 1mb pdf file, what's the time savings? It seems that the schools are teaching that faster is better and in the long run, quality suffers.

A good commercial printer knows that printing is an art form and we need to treat it as such.

My 2 cents worth.

Rick

[mrgloop]

<<You do know to keep all objects in a file with transparency (this includes drop shadows and feathered type) on a separate, bottom layer?>>

I was unaware of this. Thanks... Question:
1. Does it HAVE to be the bottom layer? If so, won't that limit my ability to place transparencies OVER a vector object?

<<A note: if you use AI's internal flattener first, and then rasterize the results together as much as possible, you'll gain significant savings in file size, and processing.>>

After using the internal flattener (under object>flatten transparency) and after using the rasterize command,
2. Do I still have to save this as a PDF 1.3 and acknowledge the transparencies?
3. Do I still have to put my transparencies on a different layer?

Sorry if I'm sounding rude or demanding... I ought to pay you or something.

[mrgloop]

<<It seems that the schools are teaching that faster is better and in the long run, quality suffers. >>

Schools aren't teaching this - the business world is. As designers for ad agencies, we are dealing with many clients who use their marketing directors as their contacts with agencies. These are marketing grads who earned their degree via the schools of business. They have no training in art whatsoever, but all their emphasis in economical and timely solutions to advertising. Many simply don't understand the value of quality, practicality and true branding. Many don't have the Adobe programs, but wish they did.

<<A good commercial printer knows that printing is an art form and we need to treat it as such.>> I agree.

A good designer knows that designing is an art form and we need to treat it as such.

[Broacher]

First, Rickself. As I said, some printers (the good ones?) prefer to handle it all themselves from the native file. But that's presuming you have a number to call for the prepress prog at the printer, which ain't necessarily the case, especially with ads. It's all about communicating.... only when you can't, you have to go for security. And sure, this includes controlling your spot output, fonts, links, overprints, traps-- and anything else you think you should cover. If you can talk to the printer before packing things into a PDF, you can eliminate most, if not all of those steps. But the preflattening I'm describing is for those situations where printer talk just isn't an option.

Mr. Gloop:

>>1. Does it HAVE to be the bottom layer? If so, won't that limit my ability to place transparencies OVER a vector object?<<

The limitations are that any kind of a transparent object that goes over, or even within about 1/4 of in inch of another object (text, vector or other raster) will usually (depends on the flattening settings and the objects too) include these lower objects as part of the flattening process. Big headings, simple graphic shapes: usually not noticeable at high halftone screen output-- but definitely there for low screens such as newsprint.

>>After using the internal flattener (under object>flatten transparency) and after using the rasterize command
2. Do I still have to save this as a PDF 1.3 and acknowledge the transparencies?
3. Do I still have to put my transparencies on a different layer?<<

If you flatten all transparencies, then it won't make a difference which version you use. The layer pallete indicates objects that include transparency with a filled in dot on the right of the object/layer name. Or, if you start to do a test export to a PDF 1.3, if the flattener controls are grey-- that means they're gone. Note that you have to make a judgement call on the degree of flattening. A lot depends on what you have to flatten.

>>Sorry if I'm sounding rude or demanding... I ought to pay you or something.<<

Rude? Didn't pick that up. Demanding? Nope. You're just asking the sort of online questions I did when I was starting out.

[jimking]

Bad news, could not get your file to rip. Tried every trick in the book. Your PDF looks fine. I was able to print a laser out ok, ran the file through PitStop, it said it was ok. Opened it in Acrobat 7, ran a preflight, it said it was ok. Placed it in Indesign--seemed ok-but the damn thing would not rip. That means there is something in your art thats causing it not to rip, raster data, vector graphics, clipping paths, bad links, bad fonts. I think your PDFs are fine, just some art is fouling it up. The problem with PDFs for prepress people is that they do not have the raw files on hand to track down the problems, to do a process of ellimination. Did you create this in Illustrator? Give me some details of the software and the graphics that are imported into your design. It could be a graphic that you use often that may be bad or not compadible. I saw no transparency problems at all however on a older version of Acrobat (4) I did see bad transes, on version 7 it looked fine. Printed (laser) fine. Here at Nordic Press we have a Apogee 3 PDF workflow that is very stable. This is the kind of job that the printer should ask you for the raw files since no one seems to know what's going on. Another thing you could do is place your art (assuming it is a Illustror file) in Quark or Indesign and send that to the printer instead of a PDF that way they have the raw files. If the printer says all they take is PDFs---trust me, that is a lie. In a case like this, the raw files are assential and any prepress person worth his salt should and would be able to output your job. Remember there were no transparency problems with your job. I think the printer you're dealing with has a old version on Acrobat.

[rickself]

It's all about communicating....

Exactly. Call your prepress guy if you have any concerns. You'll make his or her day. I'd much rather talk to the designer before they get in too deep than after the fact and we're doing all we can to bail em out.

[rickself]

The problem with PDFs for prepress people is that they do not have the raw files on hand to track down the problems, to do a process of ellimination. Did you create this in Illustrator? Give me some details of the software and the graphics that are imported into your design. It could be a graphic that you use often that may be bad or not compadible. I saw no transparency problems at all however on a older version of Acrobat (4) I did see bad transes, on version 7 it looked fine. Printed (laser) fine. Here at Nordic Press we have a Apogee 3 PDF workflow that is very stable. This is the kind of job that the printer should ask you for the raw files since no one seems to know what's going on. Another thing you could do is place your art (assuming it is a Illustror file) in Quark or Indesign and send that to the printer instead of a PDF that way they have the raw files. If the printer says all they take is PDFs---trust me, that is a lie. In a case like this, the raw files are assential and any prepress person worth his salt should and would be able to output your job. Remember there were no transparency problems with your job. I think the printer you're dealing with has a old version on Acrobat.
BINGO!

[rickself]

I'm always game to try a problem file...shoot it to me and let me see what I can come up with.
Rick

[jimking]

I have the file, however being on the eastcoast my day here at work is over. I won't have time to gather emails and such. Hopefully MRGLOOP will send you one. Keep us all posted on your results!

[mrgloop]

...Okay - So I'm understanding that I must:

1. Call the prepress folks and ask what kind of info they need BEFORE designing (it may clarify the process).
OR
2. Send the pre-depressers (just kidding), I mean prepressman, my .ai file with outlines, etc.
3. Ignore the whole PDF thing.

Am I to understand that a rookie who doesn't exactly know how to make a Utopian .pdf file shouldn't dabble with saving anything PDF? ...That if the designer would quit trying to do the PDFing, the world would be a better place? Is bypassing the whole PDF process a solution for designers and a breath of fresh air for you prepressers?

Believe me. I don't want to make you guys work extra... If I can learn how to make clipping paths in Photoshop, then it must be somewhat simple to ready a PDF file for the printer. If there is a simple "checklist" of what I must do before sending a .pdf file of ANY generic Illustrator document, what is it? ...Or am I trodding on another profession's territory?

[jimking]

It's like building a bridge using steel, bricks, cement however the steel is brittle and the bridge won't work. Purchase new and better steel and the bridge works fine. Your PDF is fine but something in it is making it fail. Those pictures of the vehicles for example, are they photoshop files or corel draw. It could make a difference. If they are tiff files is there LZW compression applied to them? That might or might not make a difference. If a printer could view all of your files (embedded ones in Illustrator also) and then you were informed of why there was a problem, you would have no more problems with that ad ever again because you would have learned something from it as unpleasant as it seems. I also took your PDF and made my own optimized PDF and it looked fine however it would not rip, no doubt that a graphic in that busy ad is causing the problem.

[rickself]

...Okay - So I'm understanding that I must:

1. Call the prepress folks and ask what kind of info they need BEFORE designing (it may clarify the process).
OR
2. Send the pre-depressers (just kidding), I mean prepressman, my .ai file with outlines, etc.
3. Ignore the whole PDF thing.

I think we're getting close to a "gun to the head" level when something is a "must do". When we start up our car, we don't say that we must push in the clutch before shifting or use our blinkers or use our wipers when it rains. When things aren't working out one way and they do another, you do what's right, alter your lifestyle to make it easier and you can get on to the next task. And you remember that that wasn't so bad and you do it next time out of habit.

What we prepress people face daily is the job that has been left to the last minute (not the designers fault, usually the client) and the deadline is now on the printer. Why do you suppose they call em deadlines?

SO-
1. Yes, call your printer / prepressman.
As a prepress person, I am the first person in the shop to take on your job and if it doesn't go right, it's not going to make it out of prepress. The salesman isn't going to know (generally) Indesign from Publisher. And the pressman knows ink and paper. The easier you can make my job, the quicker your job gets out of prepress.

2. If you're burning a cd, use the whole disk. Use the PDFX1a setting. If the file won't pdf, then it's 99%not going to rip to my platemaker. If it does pdf, I'll use that first. But IF I need to troubleshoot, send me everything you've got. On a recent map we printed, there were 120 embedded graphics. 119 were solid. The one that kept crapping out the whole job was a tiff saved as a 16 bit image. I only found that out by opening the links that were on the the 2nd cd that came a day later.

3. Hopefully answered above.

The general impression people get of a digital prepress department is people sitting around pushing buttons. Oh gawd if it was that easy. Most jobs have SOME glitch. First, it's going to be fonts. Second will be images. Third is bleed. I have to put myself in the designers mindset to sometimes take a file apart to see exactly how it was put together and that one file that is killing the job has 11,374 nodes on a path that is the size of a postage stamp.

Anyway, not on a rant. Just the more you can give me, the more I can give back. And sooner.

Hang in there...and keep asking.

Rick

[PrintDriver]

In the large format stuff we do we almost always require native format files. Each device and each outsource has so many different rip variable and machinery fidgits that if you want the best possible print we need the native file. We'll take pdf's but yous get what yous get as far as color goes, or pay a whoppin charge for fixing.

No one wants to squelch your design abilities but just because you can create it doesn't always mean we can print it. You need to understand the tools you are using to do your art. I can suggest the following Adobe site. Lots of stuff about transparency and pdf's here you should know.
http://studio.adobe.com/us/print/main.jsp?xhtml=ptd#colorandtransparency
Scroll all the way to the bottom. Start with the Designer's Guide to Transparency for Print.

Rickself and Jimking are right in saying whenever possible make the prepress guy your friend. You will eventually need him in a pinch and your willingness to learn and apply what you've learned will earn you big points.

[Broacher]

I'm not surprised that few people remember that it was Corel who first introduced 'transparency' into the Postscript publishing mainstream, way back in version 6 (or was it 7?). Adobe kicked up a huge uproar at the time saying nobody should try to use postscript to 'fake' something it couldn't do, and that we should all be happy to live without it. Mmmhmm. Just an interesting footnote to the whole transparency issue. I mean, even today, it's still 'faux transparency'-- there really is no true postscript transparency, only instructions to apps outputting, and certain advanced RIPs on how to flatten things to look like there is. That still is the nub of the whole transparency production issue.

[mrgloop]

That link provided me with a large amount of answers to my questions.

Thanks.