Blasts Rock London

[Mynock]

London rocked by explosions (http://www.cnn.com/2005/WORLD/europe/07/07/london.tube/index.html)

LONDON, England (CNN) -- Four explosions in London's transport system have killed at least two people and wounded dozens more in what UK Prime Minister Tony Blair said was an apparent terrorist attack.

[morea]

whoa... I missed that on the news this morning... thanks for posting the article.

[morea]

God, I just can't understand how people can do this to other people. <sigh>
Makes me sick.

[Tyger]

yeah heard it on the news this morning....here we go again. if it is indeed al-Qaeda there's some crazy sh!t that's going to happen.

[Mynock]

London rocked by terror attacks (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/4659093.stm) here the article from BBC NEWS

For Commuters, Typical Day Turns Into Chaos (http://www.nytimes.com/2005/07/07/international/08scenecnd.html?hp&ex=1120795200&en=a24366ff71437c33&ei=5094&partner=homepage) from The New York Times

What should be done with the G8 summit:

Go on in defieance of terrorism
Be put on hold
Be cancelled

How can I make that a pole after the fact?

[morea]

I added the poll.

[Wonder Woman]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/4659093.stm

Only 2 people confirmed dead so far, and several hundred injured, and it has been carried out by a previously underheard of faction of al-Qaeda apparently. This was on a website that the BBC found:

"In the name of God, the merciful, the compassionate, may peace be upon the cheerful one and undaunted fighter, Prophet Muhammad, God's peace be upon him.

Nation of Islam and Arab nation: Rejoice for it is time to take revenge against the British Zionist Crusader government in retaliation for the massacres Britain is committing in Iraq and Afghanistan. The heroic mujahideen have carried out a blessed raid in London. Britain is now burning with fear, terror and panic in its northern, southern, eastern, and western quarters.

We have repeatedly warned the British Government and people. We have fulfilled our promise and carried out our blessed military raid in Britain after our mujahideen exerted strenuous efforts over a long period of time to ensure the success of the raid.

We continue to warn the governments of Denmark and Italy and all the Crusader governments that they will be punished in the same way if they do not withdraw their troops from Iraq and Afghanistan. He who warns is excused.

God says: "You who believe: If ye will aid (the cause of) Allah, He will aid you, and plant your feet firmly." "


So, since they told us that they were going to attack, it's all ok? And, just in case you're are interested, I most certainly am not burning with fear, terror and panic.

All of London's public transport has been shut down - the underground and buses. No trains are running into the city and long distance buses aren't allowed in either.

Let's hope that no other lives are lost.

[morea]

glad you're safe, WW.

[Magnus]

You would think that European and British Intel would be able to track these guys down.

[Wonder Woman]

Thanks Morea - am thankful I live 5 hours away from London. Everyone I know is ok, but reading some of the eyewitness reports is quite horrifying.

[Neuro]

I think this was just a "hello we are still here" type of thing, which is not good. Especially for the President, who keeps trying to tell the American people that we are making progress. Obviously it is still not enough and you have to wonder if it ever will be. These groups of way more powerful than any normal person realizes. Governments have little or no control over what they do or when. No matter how hard they try. It really sucks that we live in a world with people who think it is ok to do this or turn the other way when they know.

[rickself]

FOX News is now listing 45 dead, 1000's injured and people still trapped in subways. Prayers to them all.

[DeleteYourself]

Just goes to show you the problem is not going to go away. Not until western countries really sit down and think about why these guys hate us. And I can assure you it has nothing to do with our freedom, despite what Mr. Bush and Mr. Blair would like you to think.

[Ulysses]

I've been following the news myself. As morea said ... it is nothing short of sickening that things like this still happen today. Luckily, although several incidents took place across London ... the severity of the incidents has been more of shock and disbelief, rather than fatalities. Still ... I hope they catch these a-holes.

[Drorain]

You would think that European and British Intel would be able to track these guys down.

Track em down prolly easy enough...arressting them without 'reason' prior to doing their cowardly attack...that might be the problem

Edit:
These people deserve our prayers and our support, I'm sorry London was struck, I prayer for my customers and friends over there. You guys be safe, stay vigilent, and crack down on these guys by whatever means necessary.

[chalsema]

^^ Even if they do get arrested, I'm sure there are many, many others like them. It's sad but true. There will always be someone else to take their place.

[DeleteYourself]

...arressting them without 'reason' prior to doing their cowardly attack...that might be the problem

Not true, Dro. See for yourself. (http://www.fairtrials.org.uk/)

[morea]

"I want to say one thing: This was not a terrorist attack against the mighty or the powerful, it is not aimed at presidents or prime ministers, it was aimed at ordinary working-class Londoners," (London Mayor Ken Livingstone) told reporters.

And that is what floors me... how anyone could "justify" attacks on innocent civilians.

[DeleteYourself]

Why does no one address the real issue: Why do these acts of terrorism keep happening, and what do we have to do stop it?

The solution is bigger than increasing military budgets and cracking down on the people who commit such acts. You're never going perfect security, and you're never going to eliminate the people who are terrorizing society. So why don't we get real and figure out how to rectify the larger problem?

Terrorists want to call attention to the fact that western countries perpetuate imperialism and trample the rights of weaker/natural resource wealthy peoples. If we would stop thinking about ourselves all the time, let these people live their own way (by evacuating our troops and military bases from their land), and mind our own business, maybe we would get somewhere.

And don't give me any shit about the Iraq/Al-Qaeda/WMD connection, because it's been proven false, despite Bush's continued rhetoric on the subject.

[DeleteYourself]

"I want to say one thing: This was not a terrorist attack against the mighty or the powerful, it is not aimed at presidents or prime ministers, it was aimed at ordinary working-class Londoners," (London Mayor Ken Livingstone) told reporters.

And that is what floors me... how anyone could "justify" attacks on innocent civilians.
I'm sure that the fact that it coincided with the G8 Summit had nothing to do with it. </sarcasm>

[morea]

terrorists have a problem with the actions of a government, so they take it out on innocent people who live in those countries and have a very limited say in what actions their governments take.

I don't understand why they think that will change anything.

Of course, their real goals are ultimately to cause mass hysteria... it's sickening.

[DeleteYourself]

Not trying to defend their actions, just explain thier significance:

The only way to make the government take notice is to attack the innoncent. Seriously, there's no way for these guys to pick up a phone and call someone and say, "Hey, you know, we don't really want you invading our country and then raping us of our oil, and robbing our country of our culture, and blah blah blah" even if they wanted to. Sometimes you have to fight fire with bigger, gnarlier fires.

If you can think of a way for them to get through to the world and the governmental leaders without pulling a stunt like this, I would be very interested to hear it.

[morea]

hell, even if they were to attack the people making the decisions instead of the civilians... of course, civilians don't have the same level of protection that surrounds the government.

[DeleteYourself]

presactly.

[morea]

that doesn't make it less wrong.

[Ulysses]

I don't think 'justification' nor 'appreciation of life' are in the mind of someone that acts in such a manner. Hell, I think they they just get a big hard-on by blowing up and annhilating anything they don't agree with. These *******s are not using thought-out tactics like the IRA did.

[DeleteYourself]

Hell, I think they they just get a big hard-on by blowing up and annhilating anything they don't agree with.

This is exactly the mentality that I was refering to.
Take time to really think about WHY they are doing this.
Passing it off as random and pointless violence only makes it worse.

[morea]

they are doing it because they want to make a point, and they can't reach their intended targets.

I know that these people view the world differently than we do, they are raised to view capitalists as "infidels" and have some very distorted views of the way that we think and act. BUT it really makes me wonder how anyone with a conscience could actually go through with something like this. Do they have no respect for life?

[Ulysses]

Do they have no respect for life?

That is what I'm getting at (in my own cumsy way, as usual). Thanks morea.
Not wanting to belittle the issue, but this is what life is about: http://www.graphicdesignforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9475

[Ulysses]

This is exactly the mentality that I was refering to.
Take time to really think about WHY they are doing this.
Passing it off as random and pointless violence only makes it worse.

Nonsense in my opinion. To be a civilized society, one needs to become civilized first. This is what meetings like the G8 are for. It worked with Ireland, and proves it can work.

[Ghastly]

hmm...lets just have a think for a moment and consider a scenario:

Bush / Blair "Yeah folks we've been complete *******s, your bombing of the twin towers, Madrid, the London Underground and all your other atrocities really put us in our place man!...so so sorry for the inconvenience we've caused you for the last 200 or so years, can we just give in to all your demands and then we can all have world piece an sh*t?"

Islamic Terrorists "hmm...lemme think about this...ahem, OK good idea!"

Bush / Blair "really pleasant fellows them terrorists when you give em a chance"

Jihad is a bloody holy war, we infidels are nothing more than dogsh*t they have to wash off the earths shoes...they do this because they can, but the activities of certain presidents are just clever justification for blowing the hell out of poor bas*ards like me who don't subscribe to their beliefs

[morea]

you're not kidding.

[Mynock]

Do they have no respect for life?

Once you remove the morality from your target, then you avoid the morality problem. Refer to them as not human or less then human. The US did it in WWII against the Japanese (http://www.clioweb.org/openseason/animals.html) and Germans (http://bss.sfsu.edu/internment/postergor.html).

[DeleteYourself]

Ulysses, you're being naive. The G8 cares nothing about the welfare of the people behind the terrorism, only the exploitable natural resources they possess.

[Ulysses]

Ulysses, you're being naive. The G8 cares nothing about the welfare of the people behind the terrorism, only the exploitable natural resources they possess.

I was reffering to the civil ability to sit and talk. Rather than blow people up.

[Ulysses]

Once you remove the morality from your target, then you avoid the morality problem. Refer to them as not human or less then human. The US did it in WWII against the Japanese (http://www.clioweb.org/openseason/animals.html) and Germans (http://bss.sfsu.edu/internment/postergor.html).

Very true. And now we all get along fine.

[Russian girl]

Hell, I think they they just get a big hard-on by blowing up and annhilating anything they don't agree with.

!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I agree..
Damn..Just realised..you can't be safe in this World. Nowhere.

[morea]

Once you remove the morality from your target, then you avoid the morality problem. Refer to them as not human or less then human.

That's it, in a nutshell imo.

[DeleteYourself]

Maybe I'm just too-far-gone down the road of cynicism, but I don't think a sit-down talk is even a remote possibility for these people. The only way decision-makers will taken notice is if their consituants (us) let it be known that this issue needs to be addressed on a much broader and globally concious scale. Contact your congressmen, your governers, the media and anyone else who listen and tell them your opinion.

In that regard, Jihad is effective. It made me listen.

[morea]

I have to agree that a sit-down talk isn't likely to work with fanatics.

How can you reason with someone who is ready and willing to give up their own life to hurt other people?

But at the same time, I honestly don't expect that our elected officials are going to be able to make much of a difference either. They don't have the power on a global scale to handle the situation.

[Ulysses]

Damn..Just realised..you can't be safe in this World. Nowhere.

It is true. People are everywhere!
Why can't we just worry about snakes and tigers any more?

[Ghastly]

just wait until we give into all their demands, and let upstart nations bent upon cataclysm develop their Nuclear and Biological arsenals unchecked

I'm sure that those *suicidal* terrorists bent upon showing us the merciless fury of Jihad will suddenly stop and come to realise that with all things being equal, and now they have nukes as well...we can all get along as friends

These *******s have no agenda other than blowing people like me to kingdom come...its just that blowing a few of us to kingdom come might make their path to blowing *LOTS* of us to kingdom come a bit shorter doing it this way.

[reuber1]

This makes me sick. These kinds of actions are just really depressing sometimes, and unfortunately that's what they are intended to do to begin with.

I just heard about this after going for my morning run along the river front. Creepy thing is, the last time I went for an early morning run was on September 11, 2001.

[Mynock]

Looks the real solution is stopping reuber1's early morning runs. 400 posts wtg

[reuber1]

Oh believe me, I'm done with them. Afternoon only from now on. And I'm not even a superstitious guy.

Thanks for the 400 post mark...though not quite as impressive as morea's count since June of last year!

[morea]

lol @ reuber.

[jimking]

The world is becoming a much SMALLER place. With a true world economy which by the way the world is advancing to, whether people in advanced nations or idiot terrorist still living in the 11th century like it or not--it's going to happen and we are starting to see turmoil because of it. TRANSLATION--Some folks and some nations will be kicking and screaming and forced into the 21 century---period...This doesn't mean I agree with this evolution its just that I believe it is some of the bad results that can happen because of this evolution.

[reuber1]

Well, I'm heading out for work. My support is out to those of you who have this situation quite literally close to home.

We need something to cheer us all up, I think.

[shellebelle]

I was in London/Paris last week and used many of the tube stations/lines that were blown up, plus the bus on occasion. Not a wonderful phone call to wake up to. There was *no* security on the Tube/bus lines, anyone can bring anything on and leave it there.

I went with my school, and there's still a bunch of students in Europe, some in London and of course no way to contact them.

The terrorists just need to hurry up and go to hell and leave the rest of us alone.

[JPnyc]

The terrorists just need to hurry up and go to hell and leave the rest of us alone.
I think in this case it's up to us to provide transportation.

[Rocketpig]

It's a mistake to attempt to deal with uncivilized people in a civilized manner. Unfortunately, the 12th Century is over and the Middle East is going to have to accept that.

In the meantime, things will be ugly. Whether they like it or not, the rest of the world needs their oil. It's sad to see an area of the world that is so wealthy run by a few despots while the people suffer. That's the real problem over there, not the West meddling in their affairs.

[bon]

I don't think the G8 should be put on hold just because of todays incident. The issues in Africa is JUST as important. Its scary because this happened not far from where I live. Fortunately this didn't happen yesterday where there was massive crowds outside celebrating their success with the London bid's for the olympics. We shouldn't give in to these terrorist attacks and let them implant fear into the nation! My condolences go to those injured and families of those killed.

[shellebelle]

I agree.

Someone suggested on another board that the terrorists don't want the G8 to go on because they don't want the poverty problem in Africa to be solved. It's easy to recruit starving people into hatred against Western civilization and therefore become the next generation of terrorists.

I don't know if there's much validity to this, as the terrorists are claiming it's in retaliation to Britian's involvement in the war in Iraq. Either way, deplorable actions.

[JPnyc]

Right, this is the major point that needs to be made. We're not dealing with civilized rational people here, but mass cultural and religious insanity. Wish all the fine decent and caring people out there would realize this. Not everyone is like YOU. If we leave them alone that doesn't mean they'll leave US alone. Wish they'd get that and stop impeding what we have to do. Go campaign and raise money for Giraffes with eating disorders or something.

[DeleteYourself]

If we leave them alone that doesn't mean they'll leave US alone.
How do you know? It's not like we've EVER left them alone.

[Ghastly]

I find it amazing that anyone can justify attacks such as these, I find it incredible that there are people willing to perpetuate their vile propaganda...Since when did these terrorists EVER have a political agenda??? Islamic Jihad has got bugger all to do with politics...it has EVERYTHING to do with killing non muslims. We should not give into these fools, they are not worthy of being heard or defended. Nor will negotions serve any purpose other than furthering their sick agendas...when will people realise that the moment these murderers have the ability to fire nukes...when they have the financial means to produce them en-masse they will use them?

These freaks are not killing themselves to uphold the cause of their brethren...they are killing themselves to KILL US because of some twisted notion that Allah regrets the fact that he allowed for non-muslims and will greet them in the after-life with open arms.

*edit* I am not religious...and so this life for me is it, that someone feels justified to terminate my existance forever because of some religious bullsh*te is impossible to deal with.

[jimking]

There is no doubt about it.

[morea]

I am not religious...and so this life for me is it, that someone feels justified to terminate my existance forever because of some religious bullsh*te is impossible to deal with.

I *am* religious, but I feel the same way... life should be respected.
Leave the judging to the deity of your choice. It's not our place.

[Kirby]

Thirteen hours later and I'm still in shock. Wednesday we're celebrating winning the Olympic bid, today we're grieving over the loss of innocent lives.

[JPnyc]

How do you know? It's not like we've EVER left them alone.
What do you figure we've done to em? Been their biggest customers? Without US presence in the world, they'd not only be a LOT poorer, but they'd annihilate each other in a decade's time. Let's not pretend they haven't fought amongst themselves, as well as with Israel. It's cultural and religious insanity on a grand scale. We will not leave their holy planet because we're defiling it by our presence. We'll arrange transportation for them, however, if that's their choice

Not only that, but the moment you give in you guarantee that every group of nuts with an insane agenda will see terrorism as a viable means of getting what they want. You do that and you've signed the death warrants of billions.

[Mynock]

On the radio two more undetonated bombs were found, but I can't find a news source to confirm this. This would have put the total to six.

Here it is (http://abcnews.go.com/WNT/Investigation/story?id=918193)

[Mynock]

From ABC NEWS

July 7, 2005 — U.S. authorities tell ABC News that British police have recovered two unexploded bombs from the scene of the terror attacks in London.

In addition, British investigators say that parts of timing devices have been recovered from the blast scene that would have been used to detonate an explosive device. This could provide evidence that would help determine who was behind the attacks, sources told ABC News.

Police in London found two unexploded devices after the morning's four subway and bus bombings that left at least 40 dead and 700 injured, ABC News has learned.

Officials also found remnants of timing devices left behind on the subways, though it is believed that the bus attack was carried out by a suicide bomber, sources said.

It is not yet known where the unexploded devices were discovered.

[morea]

glad you're safe Kirby.

[D-Frag]

Just want to add my 2 cents....

Im going to go as far to say....that we aren't stopping this the RIGHT way. Al Qaida is a fairly small organization, hundreds...maybe thousands if they are lucky in their recruiting. Ive been doing some more digging and research on these scumbags, and what boggles my mind, is that the majority of these "kids" enlisting in the Al Qaida are doing it for $$$$, not for a religion (although that is what they say they are fighting for) And who can we blame for these people having this kind of power.....

THE USA.....yup, welcome to our stupid ass presidents giving money to people who turn around and use it against us. I was reading that the average Al Qaida insurgent makes around $300-500 a week.....thats ALOT of money when you come from a place like Iraq, or Afganistan.

But here is where I just get all confused and angry. We have knowledge that the Al Qaida network is ever reaching, they communicate and negotiate with other terror cells around the globe (Drug cartels, ex military, mafia...etc) to gain access to things they need. We (the USA) have something called Special Operations. It blows my mind that with all the info we have, and the tremendous forces of our special ops, seals, berrets..etc that we can not eliminate this threat. We have soooooo much high tech gadgetery at our fingertips, considering the US government is about 40 years ahead of the rest of the world in technology (building a mechanical drone the size of a mesquito that can inject prey with heart stopping drugs) yet we can't find a few hundred ****ing terrorists??

Im totally in shock at what happened today, but I find it VERY unlikely that we can't stop these people. Plus, putting thousands of soldiers in their country is only going to provoke more people to sign up for Al Qaida. I say we withdraw, and fight this the dirty way, gloves come off...time for assasinations!

[JPnyc]

I think if that approach had yielded any results, they'd be using it. Surely cheaper than fighting an all out war.

[PrintDriver]

Man is not a "moral" creature. He is not born with a sense of 'morality'. It has to be learned. It has to be taught. If someone is born into an environment where it is not taught, then you have no hope of reasoning with them. You can see that amongst our own culture in the gangs and in the prisons.

Why would you call the Arab peoples 'uncivilized'. At one time they were far more civilized than any European 'civilization'. I might use the term 'barbaric' to describe the terrorists but wouldn't class the general citizenry as 'uncivilized' (though I wouldn't want to be a woman, or a donkey, in a Middle Eastern country). I've been to Egypt and while the people may be incredibly poor, the average bloke on the street is just trying to live his life, like we are.
Don't generalize a whole population based on the barbaric acts of a (relatively) few fanatics.

[JPnyc]

Because relatively there are plenty of countries in the region that are uncivlized. I'm not talking about Egypt. I'm talking about the state the Taliban kept people living in, and Saddam. They were poor, uneducated, oppressed, and sometimes murdered outright or imprisoned. Now why should countries rich in oil have a populus living in the stone age? Because their leaders hoarded it all and gave squat to the people. When they finally crashed the Mullah's palace, they found that all the while he was preaching austerity and "other worldly" values, he was living like 50 kings. Every modern convenience in the world, was his.

[Mynock]

It's not a matter of who's right or wrong, because it's hard to have one answer to solve such a complex issue. The important issue is that fact we are discussing it. It may not resolve anything right away, but opening discussion is something we can embrace. I hate to make it an us versus them issue.

[paulrandfan]

I don't consider myself brilliant, but as actions present themselves I know this much to be true.

This isn't a war of might. It's a war of ideology, and you can't fight a war with ideology with a military. Several weeks ago, FBI and intelligence reports indicated that the level of the insurgency is the same or larger than it was six months ago, despite the arrests and deaths. The level of terrorism related attacks has tripled in 2004. The number of "significant" attacks rose to 3,200 last year, resulting in the deaths, injuries, and kidnapping of almost 28,500 people. Bush and Blair toted that by occupying Iraq, we would fight the war over there and not in our homes. That is untrue, and has proven to be so. It is all untrue. Sure we caught Saddam Hussein, but at what cost. "Avenging" the lives of the 3,000 that were killed in WTC has cost us the lives of nearing 2,000 U.S. soldiers and the injury (physical and mental) of over 103,000 more than 3x what was budgeted for by our President for the VA. I won't even get into the economic costs.

All in all I feel that the 'war on terrorism' will never be solved. You will never completely erradicate people who hate so deeply they are willing to kill and die for it. However, you can gain allies. I've been reading about our conduct in this war, and believe that we are gaining more enemies than we are making. During WWII, we took German prisoners. They found their conduct to be so satisfactory, that they stayed in the US after the war. Do we find this circumstance today? The latest poll shows favor of the US is slipping quickly. The latest gallup polls find that many W.Euro allies favor communist China to us. Britons themselves regarded China more favorably in upset of 2/3 to just over 50%.


edited to add: I contribute this attack to the recent news that Britain will be pulling a good deal of troops from Iraq and redistributing them to afghanistan to deal with increasing violence there.

[morea]

I was listening to NPR on the way in to work this morning to catch up of the situation, and they made an interesting point; that the state of affairs in Iraq is such that people who would not have considered Jihad in the past are more readdy and willing to get involved now.

Seems that you're damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[paulrandfan]

http://www.riverbendblog.blogspot.com/

A great blog by a girl in Baghdad, really gives a picture of what is going on. She was educated in the states, and is really good with English. I think the last report showed 102 elected Iraqi representatives wanted us to withdrawl or form some sort of timestamped timetable.

[JPnyc]

All comes down to what people wish to believe. Those who are certain that everything coming out of the west is a lie, actually have no more foundation to their information than anyone else does. It seems that if you preach on some indie radio station, you have more credibility instantly. You can't possibly be lying or have any agendas of your own.

Like that blog. Does anyone know this "girl" personally? There's no way to be sure who's lying to us. The only thing we can be sure of is, someone is.

[morea]

There's no way to be sure who's lying to us. The only thing we can be sure of is, someone is.

very true.

[reuber1]

"Poisoning the well". Everyone's doing it...rather than discredit accounts against someone, discount the medium or the source...poison the well. Not saying anyone's right, but this seems to be the trend of the media and people in power. Who can we trust anymore?

[Ulysses]

"Poisoning the well". Everyone's doing it...rather than discredit accounts against someone, discount the medium or the source...poison the well. Not saying anyone's right, but this seems to be the trend of the media and people in power. Who can we trust anymore?

Trust ... what is that exactly these days anyways? I think it has been denounced by money and greed, in large. It would seem that selling people's hides (including one's own soul) has increasingly become a highly-profitable way of life for many.


Person 1
Can you keep a secret? I'll give you $1.

Person 2
Sure. You can trust me.

Person 3
Can you tell me person 1's secret?

Person 2
Sure. If you give me $10.

Person 4
Can you tell me person 3's secret?

Person 2
Sure. If you give me $100.

Person 5
Can you tell me person 4's secret?

Person 2
Sure. If you give me $1000.

[PrintDriver]

Anyone ever read the book "1984" and look beyond the concept of Big Brother at all the subtext re: tactics used to keep the people convinced they needed 'watching' to be safe from 'foreign evil'?

And you thought computer monitors only Video In...LOL!

[JPnyc]

Sure, most of us have read that book. But these types of measures aren't necessary to subjugate western populations. They're already using the single most effective means of subjugation there is; comfort.

[Neuro]

Ok, I have found this tread very interesting. Rather impressed that no one has gone off the deep end. All points are valid and good opinions. I respect what everone has said.

I tend to feel that there is NO justification for killing innocent ppl. What God or religion could possibly look upon these actions and say that they are just? I understand that there are many many different religions out ther but why is it that very few of these fanatical religions call for the killing of innocent ppl. They may not have the same beliefs but they sure as hell are innocent. I am appalled to think that there are human being out there that feel the justification to do a cowardly thing such as plant a bomb and walk away. They don't even have the balls to face thier so called enemies. Of course there are the ones who are suicidal but that's just it. They are running and trying to hide from this world. Grow up!! They wouldn't stand for the same shit to happen to their friends or their families.

I agree with the "gloves coming off." I think it's about time we stop giving these bastards rights and make them truly realize that we are not going to stand for this shit. I understand that we have to be careful how much power the govt is given but at the same time, why are the scum that try to kill us given the same rights as the innocent ppl they tried to kill or attempted to kill. That just makes no sense.

I know there is a horribly thin line between protection and martial law. I want to know I am safe but I also want my freedoms. So therefor I will live my life as I always have. Being careful and being aware. Unafraid to point out something I don't feel is right. I would rather be wrong than watch innocent ppl around me die or die myself. Ppl need to remember that. Don't be afraid to speak up. THAT is what can save many of us. Don't turn the other way.

On a more positive note about us as humans...
On 48 hours (i am getting old if I am watching that now!) they spoke to a survivor about what happened. The one thing that struck me was that she said, the person next to her asked her if she was ok. Immediately after what happened. We tend to think that humans will depend on their animalistic instincts but when it comes down to it, we can and will be concerned and compassionate for the fellow next to us. It just made me feel good to think that there are many ppl out there that still care about others.

Lets try to remember that the ultimate concern and compassion is what will keep us all from living in fear. Don't let these bastards win! Live your life and live it well!!

[Ulysses]

On a more positive note about us as humans...
On 48 hours (i am getting old if I am watching that now!) they spoke to a survivor about what happened. The one thing that struck me was that she said, the person next to her asked her if she was ok. Immediately after what happened. We tend to think that humans will depend on their animalistic instincts but when it comes down to it, we can and will be concerned and compassionate for the fellow next to us.

I think that is a very important example of how some humans really have evolved to be compassionate, humane, and caring beings. Sure we would all feel the need to avenge someone that harmed our loved ones or those who need our help, but it certainly is comforting to see that most humans have certainly come far beyond killing as their primary motivation to life ... hell, that is why shops were invented.