CD Layouts in Photoshop and Illustrator?

[Shpongled]

First of all, hello! This is my first of hopefully many posts here! I'm sorry if this issue has already been covered in these forums, but I searched them and couldn't find the answer I was looking for, so I apologize in advance if it is.

I have designed a cd layout in Photoshop at 300dpi, RGB colors (it's only a black and white layout, very simplistic... would there be a difference between RGB and CMYK?) and I know that text should not be done with Photoshop. So, the layout is complete except for the text, which I intend to do in Illustrator.

I have downloaded the proper templates from the manufacturing company's website and opened them in Illustrator. This is where my dilemma lies:

Do I place the .psd files right onto the template, and add the text this way? It seems the most logical, but I can't get the text small enough to fit in the places it needs to go. For example, I want all of the lyrics to the songs to fit on one panel of the layout. I know it can be done, but when I make the text 2pt (the smallest I can get it) it just turns into little gray boxes and I can't read it. Is this ok? Is this how it's supposed to be?

Also, when I place the .psd files onto the template the resolution is much smaller. In Photoshop, the images end up at about 1700x1700 pixels, but in Illustrator they look to be only about 500x500. Does this matter?

It just doesn't feel right to me, and we have a very strict deadline to work with (these things need to be printed and released by August 20th). I can work my way around Photoshop pretty effortlessly, and I have had decent results with a cd layout using text in Photoshop (obviously not the next results) but I really haven't done more than scratch the surface with Illustrator. Any help is greatly appreciated!!

Namaste,
Kev

[MD]

Yes RGB and CMYK will matter, Switch the mode to CMYK to get the separations to print correctly. If it is only black and white, why not greyscale? I would suggest saving the file as a tiff and place it into InDesign or Quark. A page layout program gives you much more control over how your text gets placed, also you should avoid placing raster images in illustrator if possible. The text may look like boxes because it is being greeked. Zoom in real tight and to see if you have a problem.

[Ghastly]

Firstly I would strongly advise that you keep the colour mode consistant with the device you are producing the graphics for, and in your case this would probably be greyscale or if your text will be a colour then CMYK...Yes there will be a problem if you try and print it as an RGB graphic...as those colours are simulated firstly via an additive colour mixing mode, the RIP or printer driver has to translate those colours to a subtractive mixing system...and it is very unlikely you will end up with blacks that even just look black under scrutiny. (the printer will not just print with black)...if you try to make separations you will fail.

secondly 2pt text is horrifically small and impractical IMHO...the square boxes you see the text change to however is called greeking and can be changed in preferences.

not sure about your images looking 500 by 500 but it may be your zoom level...or just the way illy is previewing it

oh and....welcome to the forum :cool:

*edit* basically what MD said but he finished before I did :D

[PrintDriver]

There is absolutely nothing wrong with using raster images in Illustrator. Or using Illustrator as a single-page layout program.

I'd probably suggest an eps rather than a tif though.

If your image is still 5" and change square then it shouldn't be an issue. Ghastly is probably right about the zoom setting. But there was a 'bug' about this a while back. Which version of Illy?

[Shpongled]

I'm using Illustrator 10 Education version. I will try saving the psd files as eps or tiff and and converting to greyscale and see what happens.

I understand the 'greeking' concept, and it makes sense... but when I zoom in tight enough to see the font, the quality of the grey image behind it gets worse.

When I get home from work I will do some experimenting. Thanks so much for all your help already!

[PrintDriver]

2pt type is way small for print. How are you getting these covers printed?

Your image thing sounds a little weird. In Photoshop when you check under Image>Image size, what does it say?
When you zoom in, the image quality will get worse. With an .eps it may be nearly illegible but it will print right on a postscript printer.

[Shpongled]

In pixels, the panel for the lyrics is 1612x1482. I know the more I zoom in, the worse the quality of the image will get, in Photoshop and Illustrator. However.. looking at the image in 100% with Photoshop results in an image that is 1612x1482 pixels. When I view the image in Illustrator at 100% it seems to be only 500x500 or so. Basically, about a third of the size I designed it.

I designed each panel based on what the template from the manufacturer told me. We're using Discmakers for the printing, and a 6 panel digipak. Each panel is 125.5mm in height, and each panel varies a little between 139.5mm and 136mm wide. The panel where we're putting the lyrics is 136.5mm x 125.5mm which is 1612 x 1482 pixels.

Included is a 70% .jpg at 500x460 pixels just to give you an idea of what I am working with. This is panel I want to get all of the lyrics on. I have them layed out perfectly in Photoshop with 3 rows of lyrics. I just want plain black Times New Roman text.

http://www.kevinjacober.com/images/misc/bpflyrics.jpg

[Shpongled]

Here is a screen shot of what I think is progress? haha. This is basically just all of the images for each panel placed in the respective locations with text added. This is a screenshot of the file open in Illustrator.

Am I heading in the right direction?

Click the thumbnail for a full view:

http://www.kevinjacober.com/images/misc/ailayoutfull_thumb.jpg (http://www.kevinjacober.com/images/misc/ailayoutfull.jpg)

EDIT: I decided it would be best to use an 8-panel digipak instead of 6 panel with three panels for lyrics. I just couldn't figure out how to fit all those lyrics on one panel.

[Shpongled]

No one can give me a simple yes or no here?

[dana]

<< No one can give me a simple yes or no here? >>

Sure, conditionally... I can give you a "yes" or "no" if you can tell me how big a pixel is.

Illustrator is resolution independent. Pixel measurements are useful in software such as Photoshop in which the resolution is for any particular file is specific, and therefor, the sizes of pixels is specific. In Illustrator, measurements ought to be in inches, metric units, or even picas and points.

Does eight panel digipak mean that there are four panels on each side? Could some of the lyrics be shown on some of the panels which are, in your screen shot, blank?

Upon closer inspection of the enlarged image, I see some extremely questionable elements in the layout... the folds. I understand that you are working on the insert card/insert booklet. If so, the "spines" (of approximately 1/4" width) on each side of the panels is inappropriate. These "spines" are used for the "tray" card... which goes below the cd-holding part of the jewel case. The insert card/booklet should have a simple, single fold between each panel.

Perhaps a folding dummy would help. To make one, print your file and fold the printed sheet at each of the fold marks to see if the marks are placed properly.

[dana]

Good question (that I failed to answer): << Do I place the .psd files right onto the template, and add the text this way? >>

Now a simple answer: NO.

Best solution: Produce as much of the file as possible in Illustrator (so it will be vector). This most likely includes trim and fold marks, and type, at least. For images that must be rasterized, use Photoshop for production and/or refinement, then place those raster files in the Illustrator file. Are you able to open the printer-supplied template in Illustrator?

[Shpongled]

<< No one can give me a simple yes or no here? >>

Sure, conditionally... I can give you a "yes" or "no" if you can tell me how big a pixel is.

Illustrator is resolution independent. Pixel measurements are useful in software such as Photoshop in which the resolution is for any particular file is specific, and therefor, the sizes of pixels is specific. In Illustrator, measurements ought to be in inches, metric units, or even picas and points.

I opened the template (which was a .ai file in Illustrator and it clearly stated the dimensions of each panel in millimeters. I then created an image in Photoshop for every panel in millimeters and not pixels. I got the pixel dimensions after I created the file by viewing Image/Image Size.

Does eight panel digipak mean that there are four panels on each side? Could some of the lyrics be shown on some of the panels which are, in your screen shot, blank?

Yes, 4 panels on each side. The blank black panels in the screenshot are reserved for a credits list, a thanks list, and the back cover (which is the panel directly to the left of the front cover. I can't put any lyrics on those panels. The reason they are still blank is because we haven't completely compiled the thanks list and credits list, or even the back cover. However, there will not be any images in any of those panels, just text.

Upon closer inspection of the enlarged image, I see some extremely questionable elements in the layout... the folds. I understand that you are working on the insert card/insert booklet. If so, the "spines" (of approximately 1/4" width) on each side of the panels is inappropriate. These "spines" are used for the "tray" card... which goes below the cd-holding part of the jewel case. The insert card/booklet should have a simple, single fold between each panel.

I know the spines are not the correct size in the screenshot, and since that screen was taken the spine problem has been fixed. There is not going to be an insert or booklet.

[quote[Perhaps a folding dummy would help. To make one, print your file and fold the printed sheet at each of the fold marks to see if the marks are placed properly.[/QUOTE]

I have no printer at home, but I do have an 8-panel digipak cd to use as a reference from a different band which is layed out the same as ours will be.

[Shpongled]

Good question (that I failed to answer): << Do I place the .psd files right onto the template, and add the text this way? >>

Now a simple answer: NO.

Best solution: Produce as much of the file as possible in Illustrator (so it will be vector). This most likely includes trim and fold marks, and type, at least. For images that must be rasterized, use Photoshop for production and/or refinement, then place those raster files in the Illustrator file. Are you able to open the printer-supplied template in Illustrator?

The only thing I have done in Photoshop is create each panel to the proper dimensions, drop a the desired color with the paint bucket in and save as .tif. On the white panels, I put the background design and band photo in their proper locations and saved as .tif. Then I opened the printer-supplied template (which is a .ai file) in Illustrator and File>Place each image right onto the template. I then added and rotated the text in Illustrator and what you see is the result I got.

Thank you for your help! I feel like a beginner again haha.