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Good morrow! I was wondering if you guys could give me some advice in this logo?

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  • Good morrow! I was wondering if you guys could give me some advice in this logo?

    Hi GDF Peeps!

    My name is Sophie M O'Connell I live in Sunny Devon in the UK and I was recently made redundant from a local newspaper/ad agency. Turns out this isn't such a bad thing though... I'm actually much happier as a freelancer and I have seen far more work and opportunities coming my way as a result! I guess if you're a believer in fate you could even say this was meant to happen...

    Some more interesting facts about me include:
    I was elected the youngest-ever town councilor in my area, I recently graduated from Google's Digital Marketing and Leadership course 'Squared Online', I used to sing in a band called Ginger on the Rocks and once played a gig at Mama Stone's with the very same band.

    Now that I am here, I was wondering if I ask my fellow designers some advice about this logo I am creating? The logo I am designing is for a recording studio and future YouTuber. The logo he has chosen incorporates his initials R and D. Now I've managed to come up with something that is a play on soundbars that the client really likes. Although we are planning on using his logo for mostly online work, I wanted to design something that could work in print situations too. However, I am worried that the gradient version of this logo (which is our preferred one) could cause potential issues when printed in local papers (they use Newsprint) due to the gap between the soundbars and the Pantone colour bridge gradient. I am thinking that for newspapers, a solid colour logo would be best... but this thing is that I would like to keep things as consistent as possible branding wise. What I'd like to know is, if I use CMYK colours that match the Pantone uncoated colour bridge swatches for Newsprint situations (such as 100% black) should that help? I'm thinking that for larger ads it should be fine, but if we wanted to use the logo in smaller ads it would have to be solid colours with 100% bases (if that's the right term?) to minimise issues. Also, would overprint help?

    Thanks again guys and I really look forward to meeting you all!


    Sophie x


    Click image for larger version

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  • #2
    The thing about Pantone books:
    The represent what the ink drawdown will look like on the paper used in the book.
    The Bridge is showing you only what a CMYK interpretation of the pantone color might look like if the color is printed using its specified CMYK values. It's Pantone's rendition, on Pantone's paper selection.

    The UP colors aren't meant to be applied. What you'd get from the CMYK values for those colors might be entirely different from expected.
    If you applied the actual Pantone Coated color, the color you would expect to maybe get is the color represented in the Bridge as CMYK printed. IF you were using the same paper and print vendor as Pantone.

    The same applies to the Uncoated book. That is the color you would expect to see if you applied the Pantone solid coated ink color and had it printed on uncoated paper. You wouldn't actually apply the Uncoated color.

    Where you are using newsprint.... Not sure what would happen.

    What you should do is have a look at the file submission specs at the newspaper you plan to submit this to.
    I found this, which seems to be your local area megaprinter for local paper printing.
    http://adsupplied.archant.co.uk/adsupplied/
    Note the conversion profiles provided as download for converting color to their CMYK process and the PDF Job Options files they make available.
    If you don't understand the specs for the specific newspaper you are using, there's no harm in calling tech support there.

    B was in publishing. Maybe he'll roll on in shortly.
    My work is pretty much limited to wide format printing where everything is Pantone Coated.

    I'm not a fan of gradients in logos. They introduce production issues. All I could do is match your 3 colors and try like hell to keep them from step banding. There is no way to really control where the colors are going to intersect and what will happen in that atomic area.
    Here's a little theory on how Illustrator (same for Indesign) calculates steps in gradients.
    https://helpx.adobe.com/illustrator/...or-blends.html
    Note the chart only goes to about 8" (19.5cm)
    Depending on the output device and the colors involved, you may get very pronounced banding, or none at all. And the max number of steps is 256. No matter how big the object with the gradient is.

    Where your client's branding is concerned, where you print small logos at Adobe's max number of 256 steps (assuming your gradient includes all those steps - it doesn't if the percentages are close together) that's all fine in 19.5cm. But if you ever print it on a banner, figure that 256 steps over something like 3 meters. The steps in 19.5 cm are only 0.7mm wide. At 3 meters, they are 11.7mm wide. If the Adobe algorithm decides the number of steps needed by your particular gradient is anything less than 256, and you have no control over whether it does or not, then the color bands of the gradient would be even bigger than 11.7mm. ie Very visible. Maybe that requires ''heroic measures'' (read tech time $$$) to smooth out that color. Where the workaround usually involves isolating and rasterizing the gradient shape, and possibly even bringing that element into photoslop and adding some noise, you are looking at 1/2-1 hour of tech time. Some of my large format sub-vendors charge $75-150 USD for an hour of tech time. Bearing in mind a green to yellow gradient is almost always a bad scene, Do you want to do that to your client?
    Last edited by PrintDriver; 08-20-2017, 08:24 AM.

    Comment


    • #3
      I may have gone off a little sideways there.
      The CMYK values you show in your brand standard, where did those come from?
      The Bridge or your layout program?

      Comment


      • #4
        Thanks for the advice PrintDriver, this was pretty much exactly what I was worried about. I'm still waiting on my Pantone colour bridge book set so I got the values from the colour picker inside Illustrator, which I'm using until I could find the colours I really wanted when the books arrived. Then I would create variants of the logo that would be used in different situations, so I was really hoping to have a file with colours values specifically for newsprint, a file with online values, etc.

        Although the client is going to be doing almost solidly online advertising, I was hoping to find a solution for print that wasn't going to lose some of the storytelling aspect you get from the online version of the logo. I understand that it's going to be a difficult task, but I was hoping to try and find a colour set that was going to be fairly consistent across all mediums. As a general rule, I've always started off any concepts in RGB with working CMYK 'ISOcoated_v2_300_eci' as my soft proof unless I can get a specific colour profile from the printers. It's not perfect, but for the most part, I've managed to get some fairly consistent results between print and online. I'm still finding my feet really, so I was wondering if you know of a more accurate way that I can get consistent results across the board?

        TBH I'm really slapping my own wrist here as I would never usually bring gradients into a logo at all and would generally just design something that will be recognisable in just black and then I'd add colour from there. I've had another think about it and I'm wondering about creating a variant where we use blocks of colour to create the illusion of a gradient, does that sound a bit mad? For other things like leaflets, posters, etc. I'm still looking for a printer that I can build a relationship with. I've found one that does some gorgeous Pantone print work, but do you guys have any recommendations for half-decent UK based printers?

        https://www.ashleyhouse.co.uk/print-...-digital-print

        Ideally, I want to find a company that uses Pantone colours. My partner thinks I can find an RGB one, but tbh it kind of sounds a bit like unicorn territory because I haven't found anything that is outside of a photographic printer.

        Thanks again for your help and sorry for all the fuss!

        Sophie


        Comment


        • #5
          Here's the modified logo with two separate gradients. The left variant is basically the same as the right variant, but I used the blending tool with 256 steps to join the colours together.

          Tbh I'm actually starting to prefer the right variant... is that weird?



          Click image for larger version

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          Comment


          • #6
            Hi Sophie and welcome to GDF.

            We ask all new members to read very important links here and here. These explain the rules, how the forum runs and a few inside jokes. No, you haven't done anything wrong, we ask every new member to read them. Your first few posts will be moderated, so don't panic if they don't show up immediately. Enjoy your stay.
            Shop smart. Shop S-Mart.

            Comment


            • #7
              Hi MarkJohnson and welcome to GDF.

              We ask all new members to read very important links here and here. These explain the rules, how the forum runs and a few inside jokes. No, you haven't done anything wrong, we ask every new member to read them. Your first few posts will be moderated, so don't panic if they don't show up immediately. Enjoy your stay.
              Shop smart. Shop S-Mart.

              Comment


              • #8
                Blends have the same problem as gradients.
                Steps.
                Steps that get bigger with scaling.

                The logo on the right with the separated colors... That's a 4-color only logo. Not spot color. That would be a 16 spot color logo because they are not screens, they are mixes. Spendy.
                Actually all of this is 4-color process printing only. And you pretty much get what you get.
                If you send the logo on the right to a printer, be sure to specify it is supposed to be stepped.
                I've had techs take something like that and make it contone, thinking the steps weren't supposed to be there.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Thanks for your help print driver I really appreciate it ... I guess it serves me right trying to design a logo that uses gradients! I feel like my lack of formal training is really showing now.

                  I guess I can always use the spot colour file as my own reference and just make sure that I have a separate CMYK version of the logo on file that's soft proofed before it goes to print. Like you say, although it won't be exact, hopefully, it might not be too jarring if I at least prep the file before hand and mention to the printers that the logo will be stepped.

                  Again thanks for all the help, is there anything else you can suggest that will help with the viability of the design?



                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Make sure it works in black and white only (no grays, no gradients) as well. It's less common now, but there are still some applications that require one color only. If it doesn't work in one color, you could be limiting your client's possible uses for it.
                    Shop smart. Shop S-Mart.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I was kinda hoping B would jump in here.
                      He has alot of newspaper experience.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I am happy to say that we're all good on the single colour front, it looks pretty snazzy in just black or white

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by PrintDriver View Post
                          The thing about Pantone books:
                          The represent what the ink drawdown will look like on the paper used in the book.
                          The Bridge is showing you only what a CMYK interpretation of the pantone color might look like if the color is printed using its specified CMYK values. It's Pantone's rendition, on Pantone's paper selection.

                          The UP colors aren't meant to be applied. What you'd get from the CMYK values for those colors might be entirely different from expected.
                          If you applied the actual Pantone Coated color, the color you would expect to maybe get is the color represented in the Bridge as CMYK printed. IF you were using the same paper and print vendor as Pantone.

                          The same applies to the Uncoated book. That is the color you would expect to see if you applied the Pantone solid coated ink color and had it printed on uncoated paper. You wouldn't actually apply the Uncoated color.

                          Where you are using newsprint.... Not sure what would happen.

                          What you should do is have a look at the file submission specs at the newspaper you plan to submit this to.
                          I found this, which seems to be your local area megaprinter for local paper printing.
                          http://adsupplied.archant.co.uk/adsupplied/
                          Note the conversion profiles provided as download for converting color to their CMYK process and the PDF Job Options files they make available.
                          If you don't understand the specs for the specific newspaper you are using, there's no harm in calling tech support there.

                          B was in publishing. Maybe he'll roll on in shortly.
                          My work is pretty much limited to wide format printing where everything is Pantone Coated.

                          I'm not a fan of gradients in logos. They introduce production issues. All I could do is match your 3 colors and try like hell to keep them from step banding. There is no way to really control where the colors are going to intersect and what will happen in that atomic area.
                          Here's a little theory on how Illustrator (same for Indesign) calculates steps in gradients.
                          https://helpx.adobe.com/illustrator/...or-blends.html
                          Note the chart only goes to about 8" (19.5cm)
                          Depending on the output device and the colors involved, you may get very pronounced banding, or none at all. And the max number of steps is 256. No matter how big the object with the gradient is.

                          Where your client's branding is concerned, where you print small logos at Adobe's max number of 256 steps (assuming your gradient includes all those steps - it doesn't if the percentages are close together) that's all fine in 19.5cm. But if you ever print it on a banner, figure that 256 steps over something like 3 meters. The steps in 19.5 cm are only 0.7mm wide. At 3 meters, they are 11.7mm wide. If the Adobe algorithm decides the number of steps needed by your particular gradient is anything less than 256, and you have no control over whether it does or not, then the color bands of the gradient would be even bigger than 11.7mm. ie Very visible. Maybe that requires ''heroic measures'' (read tech time $$$) to smooth out that color. Where the workaround usually involves isolating and rasterizing the gradient shape, and possibly even bringing that element into photoslop and adding some noise, you are looking at 1/2-1 hour of tech time. Some of my large format sub-vendors charge $75-150 USD for an hour of tech time. Bearing in mind a green to yellow gradient is almost always a bad scene, Do you want to do that to your client?
                          Thank you for your great info.

                          Comment

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