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  • MAXTOR 200GB more space needed - HELP needed!!!!



    Hi - wonder if you can help me.

    Just bought a MAxtor 7000 200GB External Firewire/USB2 drive to backup my Mac HD so I can upgrade to OSX from OS 9.2.2.

    My internal HD is Formatted MAC OS Extended, Capacity 57.26GB (60GB) available 33.78GB and Used 23.47GB

    The Maxtor 7000 format is MAC PC Exchange (MS-DOS). Capacity 189GB, Available 189.9GB.

    When I try to backup my Mac HD to the Maxtor it says more space needed, Overflow 39.3GB (total needed 228.9GB).

    I have tried this via simple drag and dropas well asRetrospect 5, the software bundled with the Maxtor drive.

    Background: Originally when I got the new drive I tried it on my PC at work and stupidly formatted it to NTFC. OK so I got PartitionMagic and reformatted it to FAT32. I then played about with PM and partitioned the drive so I could use it with the PC as well (2x5GB, 1x10GB, 1x30GB 1x60GB and a little monster). I put 2GB data from the PC onto the drive to load into the MAC. On the MAC it could see the drive but the folder inside appeared inside itself countless times and Info read zerok anyway. NB. There was no option to initialise the drive on the MAC at any time. And also I couldn't work out how to 'see' the other partitions. Back on the PC via USB1 and using PartitionMAgic I formatted the used partition then merged all the partitions, removed the folders it makes and choselogical as opposed to primary. So the drive is 189.9GB Logical(?) in Extended (yes I don't understand this too well) with a primary section too.

    I hope the above info is enough for you to help me as I really am banging my head against a wall here and have wasted way too much time on what I considered would be pretty straightforward. PS. All I ever wanted to do was network my MAC and PC and get Internet access on the MAC - got the internet access but can't get the network to work, and I've tried Dave 5 to no avail.

    Mac: 867 G4 OS 9.2.2 640RAM /PC: HP Pavillion 1.3GHz 256RAM on XP Pro / Linksys 4 Port Wireless (G) Broadband Router.

    Thanks for any help!!!!!! I know!!

  • #2
    I had vaguely the same problem with a firewire drive I bought (Iogear). The drivers that came with the drive were PC only. I couldn't format it in 9.2.2 at all. I had to put it on a machine here running OSX to format it HFS and it has been working sweet ever since in 9 and X. Doubt a PC can read it though.

    Welcome to the forum!

    PrintDriver is a large format digital print dude. His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

    Comment


    • #3


      Thanks PrintDriver,


      I read before but I won't post needlessly. Indeed, I have now upgraded onto 10.2.8 (up to date Jag *sure that's right*) and sure enough you can format to HFS OS extended (I'm SO on my work pc - can't remember a thing today!) so I did that, partitioned it 50/50 with 'unallocated space, the other half. Well, seems I can't allocate that as FAT32 using PartitionMagic7 on the pC now. If I am sure aBout this then that's Really annoying!! but I'm not... Is this right, anyone know?


      Sorry , recaP: On OSX you have to format the WHOLE drive to get ANY HFS. Of course you can partition it. But even then, with the unallocated space, I cannot format to FAT32 on the PC using PartitionMagic(7)


      Well OSX is quite nice it seems. Don't know the full power etc. But glad I waited - looked like a nghtmare before. Still having problems networking with PC. Anyone know what destination addy I use for home website serving thru Apache. Do I swap Local IP addy for eg. whatismyip external Ip addy? I really don't know about this. Help appreciated...

      Comment


      • #4
        OK, let's see what we can do here...

        From previous attempts on my own external drives under Jag, messing around with LOGICAL (as opposed to PRIMARY) 'drives' or partitions will only give you headaches on the Mac side. Actually, it sometimes flakes out on the PC side! Logical partitions are a bridge option to allow PCs to skip over the BIOS limitation of four partitions maximum on any IDE hard drive. Basically, you make a 'wrapper' partition Primary, then it can 'wrap around' a large number of Logical partitions. Not too logical, huh?

        So, personally I'd just clear the hard drive, and reformat it as one large UNASSIGNED Primary partition. In PartitionMagic, you don't actually format the drive; the file allocation tables just get wiped. It's called 'Quick Formatting', and if you go in the 'Preferences' in PM, there's an option to perform a full format (can't remember what the actual option is, I now use Acronis Partition Expert instead). Enable that, and do a wipe. You don't have to give it a file system, Unassigned is the option (I think).

        The more I type, the more I think I need to try it out myself. I have to take my daughter to a doctor's appt. this morning first thing, but after I get back I'll slap an extra drive in my USB/FireWire enclosure and test out the best way to do this. I recently went through a similar situation with a Maxtor 200GB drive, so I know your pain! I'll use PM as well (I think I may still be on 6.0, not sure) so we're using the same tools...

        As for the IP address of your Apache server, I'm wondering a couple things...

        1) Are you talking about serving the site from your Jag'ed Mac?
        2) Is the firewall option turned on in the Mac?

        There is a great series of articles on O'Reilly's MacDevCenter site on configuring OS X for Apache use (updated for Jaguar). Here are the links:

        www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2003/04/04/apache_jaguar_pt1.html
        www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2003/04/11/apache_jaguar_pt2.html
        www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2003/04/22/apache_jaguar_pt3.html
        www.macdevcenter.com/pub/a/mac/2003/05/09/apache_jaguar_pt4.html

        If those articles don't specifically answer your questions, post back here. I'm no Apache guru, but I play one on TV.

        I'll get back to you on setting up that hard drive.
        Dan
        CATALYST Techworks Consulting

        EDIT: edited for URL linking...

        Post Edited (torque2k) : 9/9/2004 12:01:05 PM GMT

        Comment


        • #5
          OK, before doing this on my own, I did a quick Google on it, and found (as always) that MacOSXHints.com has an article on someone doing this already. After reading through it all, including all the comments, I realize why it worked for me: I've upgraded to Panther (10.3). In Panther, there's a new command option for 'diskutil' called 'MBRFormat', which is used to trick the PC into seeing the FAT32 partition and skipping the oddball HFS+ one. The link to the specific article is here, and the comment which documents the procedure working perfectly under Panther is as follows:

          =============

          I'll share what I've found out because I think it gives you the best possible solution for the problem. Possible that some of you know about this already but from my point of view, my method has not explicitly been described before and I feel it is a good summary of various details spread over many previous posts.

          Simply use

          [quote]diskutil</CODE>

          to partition your extrnal FW drive! No need for a Windoze machine to set this up. Check out the man page for diskutil, it describes pretty well what you need to know and even gives an example which is almost exactly what you want.

          The command line tool diskutil pretty much does what the well-known Disk Utility application does (duh...), except it also allows you to mix Apple (HFS+, ...) partitions with MS-DOS partitions on the same drive (you cannot do this with the Disk Utility).

          Basically what you want is sth like this:

          [quote]diskutilpartitionDiskdevicenumberOfPartitionsMBRFo rmat<part1Formatpart1Namepart1Size><part2Formatpar t2Namepart2Size></CODE>

          Replace

          [quote]<part1Formatpart1Namepart1Size></CODE>

          with the appropriate details for your HFS+ partition and

          [quote]<part1Formatpart1Namepart1Size></CODE>

          with the appropriate details for the MS-DOS partion (or vice versa). Keep in mind that the name for the DOS partition should be uppercase and less than 12 chars, otherwise the partition will not be assigned a name (but be created anyway).

          When thinking about the size: You can use abbreviations like

          [quote]10G</CODE>

          for 10 GByte (see man page). And you don't have to take out a calculator to determine how much space is left for your second partition (given the size of the first one): Simply use the desired size for the first partition and then give a number which exceeds the amount of space left for the second one - then automatically every little byte left will be used for the second partition.

          As for the device: Use the procedure described in the original post to find out which device to use (to find out the disk #). Then use sth. like

          [quote]/dev/disk2</CODE>

          Check out the man page for details.

          Although you cannot repartition your boot up disk anyway, I think, be careful here and eject any other disks (such as iPods etc.) before using this command, just in case... As you know, there will be no confirmation question after entering the command and all data on the whole disk (all volumes) will be lost, so make sure you find out the appropriate disk # before typing in anything for fun.

          Using the parameter

          [quote]MBRFormat</CODE>

          specifies that the partition table be written in such a way that Windoze machines can read it.

          And here is what you get using the procedure described above:

          A partition which will be recognizable on Windoze machines AND Mac machines without problems and a HFS+ partition which will be recognized automatically on the Mac without any problems (no need to manually mount the volume after logging in as described in the original post, the volume will automatically be mounted upon log in and can be unmounted just like any other external volume in the Finder).

          HOWEVER, YOU CANNOT BOOT UP YOUR MAC FROM THE HFS+ PARTITION.

          As has been said before in previous posts: The way partition tables are stored on Win and Mac systems differs. (At the moment) you cannot have HFS+ and FAT32 (Windows) partitions on the same drive and boot up into the appropriate partition on BOTH systems. See also Pierre Duhem's concerns expressed in a previous post above on this. So if you are REALLY concerned about your data you might want to not use the procedure described and instead stick with ONLY HFS+ or ONLY FAT32. However, I have not experienced any problems with the setup described above (apart from the fact that I cannot boot off the partition which is not so relevant for me anyway and which I don't consider a problem now that i know about it). But can't guarantee total functionality, of course. [Insert 'Batteries not included, only valid where not prohibited' and your other favorite legal warnings here.]

          As I said, the Finder can perfectly handle the HFS+ volume created in the above manner. It's the Mac's open firmware that does not allow booting with the created HFS+ partition (because it does not like the partition table in MBRFormat). It took me quite a few tries to find out the details on this. For instance, I created a separate HFS+ partition onto which I cloned my whole internal boot up hard drive (via Carbon Copy Cloner). In System Preferences under Startup Disk you can then also select the cloned system for the next start up, BUT IT WILL NOT WORK. Apparrently, the open firmware does not like it (the external FW drive is not detectable at start up (press the [option] key when switching your Mac on to select the start up drive and the FW drive won't show up) but System Preferences does not know this and would let you choose the FW drive for start up although it will not work. On the other hand, by not using the parameter MBRFormat, which you might think would be worth a try, you would end up with a FAT32 (MS-DOS) partition which can be handled perfectly on your Mac but won't be recognized by Windoze which makes the whole thing pretty much pointless.

          So Win machines can only handle MBRFormat type partition tables. So whichever way you turn it: Both Mac and Win systems don't really like each other's partition tables (or mixtures thereof) - however, the Mac is a bit more flexible here, as usual. :-) So decide for yourself if the pros or cons of this method overweigh. (I decided to go for it.)

          BTW: Am using Mac OS X (10.3.2), if this is of any relevance.

          ===================

          Hope this helps. BTW, for the first time ever, when Panther came out I did an UPGRADE installation over my Jaguar install on my dual G4 450, just to see what would happen. Usually, this is the best way to slow down your system, but suprisingly it sped it up! I've been running this way for, well, since the second week Panther was available, and it gets used lots during the week. I'm only now thinking of doing a clean install of Panther (I just hate reinstalling all those apps again with all their separate patches). 10.3 is the best OS Apple's put out since 7.6, IMHO, and I highly recommend it to anyone still running Jag (and I've been running OS X as my only Mac OS since DR3, so I've seen the good, bad and ugly sides of OS X).

          Comment


          • #6
            hey, thanks torque2k.

            I'll be honest. For now I really don't want to get involved in Terminal commands just yet, knowing I'll be just another newbie copy-paster, and I'd rather have a clue to be fair. So for now I'm gonna leave it 'til another time when I've learned it up a bit first meself. cheers Big Time all the same.

            Right now I'm more concerned with getting my FTP and Windows sharing (or rather - accessing my Windows) back up and running. I had it, now I lost it. Not happy, mate!

            This happened after I did the second to last Software Update, after I (eventually) restarted. -Lost my mounted PC shared folders from my desktop, and can't seem to 'Connect to' the PC anymore.

            I can see the Mac from the PC now, but not the other way around. (back to good ol' error 36!)

            Interestingly, I also cannot FTP to my Mac again. The user name and password are the same. The router settings (port forwarding) that seemed to do the trick last time haven't been changed, and for good measure I did reset my User password by re-entering it. error messages appear to relate to priveleges(?)

            In the meantime I did have an issue with the other User accounts. i decided they weren't necessary so deleted them, resulting in a Deleted users folder on my Home directory. As you probably know, I wasn't able to delete this folder, and, as frustration normally couples with illogical troubleshooting, I proceeded to mount the user dmg files and made a complete mess. Well a trip to OSX Hints gave me some Terminal commands that scared me off (for the time-being, mind!), then i realised I only had to Cmd-I the folders and change the ownership/Permissions to ME from System in order to delete them.

            So I did that, but of course it's kinda irrelevant to my renewed problem. waht have I done. I've got it working before, messed it up and can't get it back. I know I'm probably a muppet but ..can I be helped?

            What a laugh, eh? [img]/emoticons/tongue.gif[/img]

            Comment


            • #7
              Actually, it's not clear to me: did you have the FTP problems BEFORE deleting the 'other user' accounts? If so, it COULD be related.

              Simplest fix first for the sharing... try running the Disk Utility, and select the partition OS X is on. Use the REPAIR DISK PERMISSIONS option and see if that helps. If not, holler back and I'll dig around and see if it's salvageable. I may have you email me some logs just to check out. Running the Repair... is commonly needed after doing a minor version update. I still haven't gone to 10.3.5, as too many things changed. I need Java JRE running perfectly, and the one included broke some things. Java was finally updated (fixed?) late last week.

              Yeah, Terminal is something true Mac lovers NEVER wanted to see in the OS, but it's there, so make the best of it. As a true alpha-geek, I cherished the day Steve said the new OS would be based on NeXT, which was basically a highly modified UNIX. With the BSD core, there's so much more power, but with that power comes... say it with me... RESPONSIBILITY! Never delete anything before Google-ing it. Lesson learned, eh?

              ARRRRRR! (it's still Sunday, I can get away with it, right?)

              I'm a computer systems consultant and technician, but my business is very localized.
              However, feel free to check out my site, which always has new and interesting
              articles on using computers:
              CATALYST Techworks Consulting

              Comment


              • #8
                Wait, I can FTP from my Mac to say, the company website -just to be more clear.. And no, I didn't have problems accessing my Mac from work before deleting the other users, ne'theless I was logging in with my main admin account (ME) and password in any case.

                I've repaired the disk permissions as you suggested, and will try from work tomorrow. Although I assume I should be able to connect from base which I've tried. When I try to connect it says: Login failed .. User ME may not use FTP. This is the same message that I received at work after the Software Update and Spidy sense failing; I did these on the same visit so can't consolidate how the problem originated.

                Much obliged for the help, torque2k.

                Comment


                • #9
                  First thing I would do is check to see if 10.3.5 Updater changed the firewall settings. Since you're trying to get INTO your Mac from your work PC, the Mac's firewall may be set to block FTP Access. Open System Preferences on the Mac, and select Sharing. Make sure that, in the tab labeled Services, there's a checkmark in 'FTP Access'. If not, that's probably the fix here. BTW, I'm assuming you have NOT set up proxy serving to forward the FTP port to another port on the Mac...

                  I'm a computer systems consultant and technician, but my business is very localized.
                  However, feel free to check out my site, which always has new and interesting
                  articles on using computers:
                  CATALYST Techworks Consulting

                  Comment


                  • #10


                    It's on Jaguar 10.2.8 and all the sharing settings are as before i.e. FTP checked, Windows Sharing checked, Firewall off. All I did on the router was forward the default FTP port to my Mac (21) which shouldn't make any difference, just some plain illogic that was part of the setup that worked before. Oh, I'm having fun!!


                    Cheers torque2k, will get there again I'm sure...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      OK, didn't think to ask what OS version, sorry. {kicks self}

                      Ya, the router port forwarding is necessary, BUT, is the port forwarding to a set IP address on your network? Has that address changed on your Mac? I know you don't like messing around with Terminal, but start it, and type ifconfig en0 - you'll see a listing of all info on your Mac's ethernet port (en0, default on most Macs). Somewhere in the list of gobbledy gook is a line that reads 'inet 192.168.x.x' or something like it. That's your current IP address on the network. Your router is probably SERVING any machine on your internal LAN a DHCP address, meaning it can vary from day to day. If you've port-forwarded port 21 to what WAS your Mac's IP address, and the update changed some settings in the network stack, the Mac may have asked for a new address, and the router gave it. The port-forward rule doesn't automatically change to reflect that; you'll need to change the rule in the router to reflect the Mac's new address.

                      Note that if you're giving your machines STATIC IP addresses, the above is null-and-void, sorry to have wasted your time. [img]/emoticons/biggrin.gif[/img]

                      I'm a computer systems consultant and technician, but my business is very localized.
                      However, feel free to check out my site, which always has new and interesting
                      articles on using computers:
                      CATALYST Techworks Consulting

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Wait, am I talking to two different people here? Now I think I'm getting messed up...

                        I'm a computer systems consultant and technician, but my business is very localized.
                        However, feel free to check out my site, which always has new and interesting
                        articles on using computers:
                        CATALYST Techworks Consulting

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Hi, torque2k - no, we're the same person. sorry 'bout the confusion there - i can't explain that to make sense so I shan't...

                          Yea, it's the same IP. Would the new IP not show up under the Sharing tab in system preferences? There's only two computers on this home network, a PC and a Mac. They are on DHCP and though I've been watching for them to change, they haven't so far.

                          I did check it on the terminal also as you suggested (that command was ok, not too scary - of course, I've used something similar, someplace else...), yup - it's still 51

                          This I don't get, however: I can ping the Mac from the PC but, using Network Utility on the Mac, I can't ping the PC though I can the router of course.

                          Comment

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