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  • KitchWitch
    Reply to Personal Logo Critique
    KitchWitch
    Hi Vidal and welcome to GDF.

    We ask all new members to read very important links here and here. These explain the rules, how the forum runs and a few inside jokes. No, you haven't done...
    Today, 03:36 PM
  • VIDAL
    Reply to 14 secrets Designers will never tell you.
    VIDAL
    Print - I'm going to give you a design-gift for Christmas - plastered with ComicSans - not because I don't like you, but because I believe in equality for all font faces and designers - even Papyrus....
    Today, 03:30 PM
  • VIDAL
    Reply to 48 brand manuals
    VIDAL
    Heineken was one of my favorites - I was pretty unimpressed with BMW's Guidelines, ya know, being German und all!

    Guten Nacht....
    Today, 03:02 PM
  • VIDAL
    Reply to Personal Logo Critique
    VIDAL
    I think Roth and TimDojo have considerably awesome critique's on your piece but I want to be a bit more direct and I might sound harsh.

    Quite simply, lose your name to the right and consider...
    Today, 02:56 PM
  • PrintDriver
    Reply to 14 secrets Designers will never tell you.
    PrintDriver
    I particularly like the reformatting of email.
    Like any designer would willingly choose Comic Sans...well... unless they didn't like the email sender maybe....
    Today, 02:55 PM
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  • Discussion on this quote! : D

    Hellllo fellow designers!

    I am just curious on what do you guys think of this quote and your takes on it:

    Technology over technique produces emotionless design ~ Daniel Mall
    -----

    Do you think that the reliance of technology (digital methods) over techniques (I am assuming hands-on stuffs? like craft?) produces emotionless design?

    OR do you think that even without the reliance of a technique, technology can still produce a piece of design with emotions?

    What do you think makes a design effective in terms of communication of message/emotion to be clear?

    How can a design have more "emotions" to it? Is it really the application of technique? Or is it the form of technology being used?

    If we compare digital methods (like using softwares) instead of a piece of design that has craft-on techniques being treated on it, does this inadvertently causes more emotions to be sent into the design? [Like, perhaps, the tactility of it in real life. Perhaps if we are talking about digital mediums like web, there's not much hands-on technique can be done.]

    --------

    I am just wondering if the quote as aforementioned is more on a situation-basis... For digital platforms, the technology is required more than the technique? Or is the technique at the end of the day, important no matter what the platform is. What about in real life? Is it better to focus more on what the technique being used in the design? Rather than the technology being used on it.

    What do you guys think?
    For technology?
    For technique?
    or... a marriage of both?

    : ) Thanks for reading! I would love to see what the responses would be from the fellow designers' perspective. I hope this would be a way to make designers think about technology and technique :P

  • #2
    school paper?


    All you have to do is look around you. Lots of hack design out there that illustrates your point very easily.
    "I have Photoshop" does NOT equal "I am a Designer".

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by pinkysheep View Post

      OR do you think that even without the reliance of a technique, technology can still produce a piece of design with emotions?
      Technology can't create anything, only a person can create. Technology and technique are both merely tools.

      Comment


      • #4
        Originally posted by PrintDriver View Post
        school paper?


        All you have to do is look around you. Lots of hack design out there that illustrates your point very easily.
        "I have Photoshop" does NOT equal "I am a Designer".
        Hahah! Well, close enough! [did I sound suspicious?] ...This is kind of for a school paper. But more like a focus group discussion thing. I basically need to find out from other designers on what they think about the quote and interpret from it. :P

        Thanks for replying, PrintDriver! You did bring up a point about owning a program [technology] than owning a technique [i.e. knowing what design is- design principles, elements etc/being a designer].

        So does that mean technique is more important than the technology? Being a designer who can master the design principles/elements will be able to outshine the fancy shmancy technology [helloooooo, photoshop/illustrator!] in order to bring a design to life...

        Comment


        • #5
          Read Kool's answer. His is better.
          Design technique involves not only knowing how to design, but also how to use the current technology PROPERLY to realize the design's full potential. That takes human skill and practice.

          Today, you can't design without technology but you should not let technology drive the design. Sometimes you have to understand and work within the limits of the physical world. There are technical aspects to design that go beyond the software itself. (like not telling me to print a seamless 80" x 80" lambda print or hang a clear acrylic block letter on the wall with no visible fasteners...LOL.)

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Kool View Post
            Technology can't create anything, only a person can create. Technology and technique are both merely tools.
            Thanks for the response, Kool!

            I suppose you're for technology and technique. A healthy combination of both, seeing that you regard both as tools...

            Just curious on what other think of technology itself. And how it is affected by technique. Do designers compensate on technique? And/or rely on the technology [i.e. all the cool tools on photoshop/illustrator] seeing that the digital revolution has gifted us convenience, speed, and efficiency to our design outcomes?

            I just feel that nowadays many designers would rather brush up on their techniques to use technology [i.e. digital methods] and let craft methods [traditional/non-conventional] to be the stepchild of their design outcomes... Of course, I could be wrong about this-- simply because I am still young and not seen the design industry with my own eyes...

            Comment


            • #7
              Are you talking about traditional art methods like pencil & paper or Pen and Ink?
              My feeling is if a designer can't draw his way out of a paper bag, he shouldn't be designing... There are aspects of being able to 'see' creatively that are required to become skilled in the higher levels of the design field. I work with some designers that can do amazing things with layout software, (not always correctly but still amazing). These folks are few and far between and getting scarcer. They grew up their careers with the programs, some of them coming from conventional layout backgrounds that you read about in history books now. They are, unfortunately going the way of the dinosaur and I don't see any up and comers to take their place.

              Comment


              • #8
                I fear that the repeated use of "craft methods [traditional/non-conventional]" equates to scrapbooking. That makes my Rapidographs cry (even more than they did when they discovered I couldn't use them to their full abilities ).
                This post is brought to you by the letter E and the number 9. Those are the buttons I push to get a Twix out of the candy machine.
                "I put my heart and my soul into my work, and have lost my mind in the process."

                Comment


                • #9
                  If you are using technology without an eye for design, you will always be limited to copying other designers or letting programs dictate the output. But just because you go the low-tech route doesn't mean your work automatically gains soul either. Give a bunch of scrapbookers the same packs of pre printed designs and you could get similar solutions too.

                  I don't think of technology and technique to be mutually exclusive but we generally master and stick with the technology that we know. It would be time consuming and expensive to learn and master a new technique for every job. Could be fun though.
                  It is more fun to talk with someone who doesn't use long, difficult words but rather short, easy words like "What about lunch?" – Winnie the Pooh

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by pinkysheep View Post
                    Thanks for the response, Kool!

                    I suppose you're for technology and technique. A healthy combination of both, seeing that you regard both as tools...
                    After giving it a bit more thought I would say technique is more of a skill than a tool.

                    The mind creates.
                    The skills translate
                    The tools transform

                    It's the same whether you use a sharpened stone or a computer.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      First off, thanks garricks for the reply.

                      Originally posted by garricks View Post
                      I fear that the repeated use of "craft methods [traditional/non-conventional]" equates to scrapbooking. That makes my Rapidographs cry (even more than they did when they discovered I couldn't use them to their full abilities ).
                      Hahahah! Oh my! Well, I am not surprised by that thought that craft methods are often associated to scrapbooking. Or macaroni and white glue paste kind of arts and crafts... You see, this is also another thing I am highly intrigued by— so in your opinion, would you say that graphic design can be associated to craft methods? I mean, what would be more of an association to graphic design? Technology? Simply because with graphics done using a computer?

                      Graphic Design is very broad as we all know. I am just wondering if "craft methods" made its way into the home of graphic design instead of just being treated like a passer-by...

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        I agree with what everyone has said, so I won't repeat it.

                        Originally posted by pinkysheep
                        How can a design have more "emotions" to it? Is it really the application of technique? Or is it the form of technology being used?
                        Unless I'm just designing a utilitarian form or an instruction sheet, designing with the intention of evoking an emotional response from the viewer is an important part of what I try to do.

                        Design has to work on several levels. For example, it has to focus the target audience's attention in a way that makes them receptive to what's being presented. Good design usually also has to resonate on an aesthetic level that attracts (or repulses) the viewer. Often, a design has to communicate very specific information, like on a sign. I could go on, but you get the picture.

                        But more to the point about emotions... Design is often at its best when it transcends the obvious things that I've just mentioned and touches someone inside on a level that isn't expected. Depending on the motives of the design, it might leave the viewer tense, relieved or excited. It might evoke melancholy responses by subliminally suggesting events from the past. Great design can reach right into the viewers' psyche and tap directly into those deep-down reservoirs of emotion that cause the viewer to immediately identify with whatever the design is about.

                        Music is a complex mathematical sequence of intertwining notes and rhythms that, in some mysterious way, evokes emotional responses from its listeners. Great design, film, dance or visual arts can do the same thing. At its very best graphic design is the visual equivalent of great music — both are understood and appreciated on a much deeper and emotional level than conscious, logical thought permits.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by <b> View Post
                          Unless I'm just designing a utilitarian form or an instruction sheet, designing with the intention of evoking an emotional response from the viewer is an important part of what I try to do.
                          I actually get quite emotional over the design of utilitarian forms --- having been frustrated and despaired at the consequences of their too common dysfunctional failures for far too long. (And I'm not even living in a country where the term 'chad' and 'ballot' became historically connected in unforeseen ways).

                          Another point is that designing with and for emotions is often in itself a technique. Often one of the most sophisticated, heavily researched areas of marketing in recent years is the corporate application of carefully engineered/designed branding 'strategies' which modify our short and long-term purchasing behaviours based on psychological and even neurological studies.

                          And no, looking at design as an emotional/behavioural engineering challenge isn't exactly the industry standard -- yet. But the more carefully you examine the directions that are succeeding it helps you understand that this might be the end direction sooner than we think.

                          It's fine to proclaim the inclusion of emotional content to design work as a kind of magical, transcendent power that elevates our work above that of 'mere' scientific application -- but the truth is that more and more of our top human creative potential has been, and will continue to be, expropriated for industrial, corporate purposes.

                          The real question then, to me, is not what is the degree of emotional content inherent in a design -- but rather, what is the degree of creative expression that we are willing to allow to be commodified and exploited for corporate profit and power over our individual lives?

                          Or perhaps, more bluntly: have designers become too much part of the design?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I hope Pinky gets an A.


                            Please define "Craft Methods."

                            Since I work in a weird little corner of the industry that involves exhibit and theatre work, we use 'Crafts' all the time.
                            A graphic panel for an interactive exhibit may have
                            a print mounted to plexi,
                            with spot mounted photos or cutouts on top of that,
                            then have dimensional lettering made out of painted metal or plastic as the title, instead of just using text in the flat print in the background panel.
                            The graphic panel itself may be in a wood laminate covered frame or a painted metal one.
                            The whole panel may be fastened off the wall, adding more dimensionality, using decorative fasteners.
                            Or the whole wall may be one big graphic panel that incorporates all of the above.

                            Knowing what materials to call out and how to incorporate them is a craft in my view.

                            Here's a pic of what I mean from the National Infantry Museum (I didn't work on this one but I know the designers.)
                            http://www.flickr.com/photos/nationa...7625311364714/
                            or
                            http://www.flickr.com/photos/nationa...7625311933994/

                            Any one particular exhibit design may involve the skills of many crafts; carpentry, cabinetry, metalwork, scenic painting and sculpting (dioramas), graphic design, interactive design, customized electronics etc.
                            Last edited by PrintDriver; 01-15-2012, 02:04 PM.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by PrintDriver View Post
                              Are you talking about traditional art methods like pencil & paper or Pen and Ink?
                              My feeling is if a designer can't draw his way out of a paper bag, he shouldn't be designing... There are aspects of being able to 'see' creatively that are required to become skilled in the higher levels of the design field. I work with some designers that can do amazing things with layout software, (not always correctly but still amazing). These folks are few and far between and getting scarcer. They grew up their careers with the programs, some of them coming from conventional layout backgrounds that you read about in history books now. They are, unfortunately going the way of the dinosaur and I don't see any up and comers to take their place.
                              Oh no, not that kind of traditional art methods. It's more on craftsmanship sort of techniques. I am more interested in the [hold it... wait, wait... here comes the word, "creative"] flexibility of a designer to be able to do myriads of other things than just designing using a software. We can use our hands to be crafty and whip up an x-acto knife to do some diecutting, printmaking, folding, etc or attempt on another form of craft if we want to.

                              However, it is no doubt that a designer still need to be able to draw; as possessing the ability to do so will be an asset to them.

                              The question on the original quote of this thread is also touching on: being versatile with [many] techniques, preferably the ones which require a designer to be pay attention more on their craftsmanship skills-- does this help a designer to be able to be more sensitive to design and thus enable a designer to design better? Using their hands to play with other stuffs than the mouse so that their hands let their minds to somehow develop their [once again... the word... 'creative'] growth as a designer.

                              Other questions pertinent would be:
                              What also affects a design to be emotionless? [I'm sure it's more than just, "designer needs to know how to design for a certain audience, consider a billion of things..."

                              I am curious of what others would have to say on 'emotionless' design. [Is it really technology/digital methods to be blamed? Or it all goes back to the designer itself...]

                              -------

                              By the way, the responses here so far are good and I appreciate it a lot... Thanks a lot, guys!

                              Comment

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