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  • you guys will get a kick out of this

    This is a good one. to give you the background, this guy I work with, we will call him Jack, who I have done a good amount of work for calls me up and wants me to do an ad for him to be placed in a magazine. so I do the ad...send it off PDF to the magazine. Well it prints wrong so he send them an email. Here is the one he sent them:

    Thank*you*for*forwarding*the*In-Motion*paper*to*me*for*September.**We
    did*notice*however*that*the*ad*was*not*printed*cor rectly.**There*are*two
    black*text*boxes*with*information*contained*in*eac h*that*did*not*print
    correctly.**The*file*I*submitted*contained*the*tex t*in*white*in*those
    boxes.**It*looks*as*though*you*may*have*used*an*ol der*version*of
    Acrobat.**Please*advise*on*how*I*can*either*get*a* credit*for*this*ad*or
    can*get*an*additional*ad*submission.**I*will*wait* to*pay*the*invoice*you
    submitted*to*me*until*I*hear*back*from*you*so*I*kn ow*how*to*proceed.
    *
    Thanks,
    Jack


    Now i informed him it could be an older version of acrobat (cause he asked before he emailed them). but regardless the ad printede wrong this is the email the editor sent back to him.

    Jack,
    ***We*printed*the*file*you*sent*us.*We*have*the*mo st*recent*edition*of
    Adobe*Acrobat.*We*would*be*happy*to*comp*you*that* ad,*but*from*here*on
    out,*you*will*need*to*provide*us*with*a*hard*copy* or*take*what*you*get
    when*it*comes*out*in*print.
    ***We*have*no*way*of*knowing*your*intentions*when* they*are*sent
    electronically.*And*we*do*not*have*the*manpower*or *time*to*allow*for*ad
    approval*unless*you*want*to*come*over*during*produ ction*and*take*care*of
    it.
    **So,*long*and*short,*we*will*kick*in*an*extra*ad, *but*the
    responsibility*for*the**viewability**of*the*ad*res ts*with*you.
    ***Let*me*know*how*you*want*to*proceed.


    i was appalled by what she said to him, completely unprofessional...so with his blessing I sent her this:

    Ms so and so

    My*name*is*Joe*Fauvel*and*I*am*a*graphic*designer* with*UCF*and
    recently I*had*worked*with*Jack*on*an*ad*for*your*magazine. *Jack*has
    forward*me*your*last*email*to*him*and*this*disturb s*me.*The*sheer*fact
    that*you*are*trying*to*place*the*blame*on*him*is*h ighly unprofessional.

    To*say**'We*have*no*way*of*knowing*your*intentions *when*they*are*sent
    electronically.'*is*just*completely*bogus,*does*co mmmon*sense*come
    into play*here?*As*I*have*been*told*2*big*black*boxes*w ere*displayed*where
    logos*should*be.*This*wouldn't*seem*wrong*to*you*a nd*a*simple*phone
    call might*have*solved*it?*I,*myself,*have*been*an*art* director*for*a
    magazine*publisher*and*would*get*in*many*ads.*It*w as*up*to*me*to
    filter them*out.*Comes*with*the*territory.*Stuff*happens. ..*but*you*have*to
    learn*to*roll*with*the*punches.*I*feel*you*have*at tacked*Jack*and
    tried to*lay*the*blame*on*him,*by*saying*the*'viewabilit y'*lays*on*him?
    Please...*think*about*it.*It's*your*magazine,*you* are*responsible*for
    the*output...not*your*customers.*

    I*appreciate*you*comping*the*ad...*it*is*the*right *thing*to*do.*the
    next ad*will*be*perfect,*trust*me*on*this!

    Sincerley,

    Joseph*Fauvel
    Coordinator,*Educational*Media/Communications


    so she sent me back this!

    Mr.*Fauvel
    **As*I*said,*we*had*no*way*of*knowing*that*those** black*boxes**were*not
    graphic*elements.*We*went*out*of*our*way*to*accomm odate*this*ad*at*the
    very*last*minute.*The*fact*that*we*have*given*you* a*complete*credit
    should*suffice.*I*don't*appreciate*your*telling*me *what*is*professional
    and*what*is*not.*I've*worked*in*campus*media*for*m ore*than*15*years*and
    was*a*daily*newspaper*editor/reporter*for*another*30,*up*until*2001.*In
    addition,*I*was*media*adviser*at*UCLA*before*comin g*to*Daytona,*so*my
    credentials*speak*for*themselves.
    ***If*your*office*is*unhappy*with*the*way*your*acc ount*is*being
    handled,*it*is,*of*course,*your*option*to*forego*w orking*with*us.**We
    just*began*the*semester*and*only*two*weeks*ago*fou nd*an*ad*manager,*so
    in*all*my*spare*time*--*which*is*little*considering*I*advise*the
    newspaper*and*teach*seven*classes*--*I*also*have*been*training*the*new
    manager*and*juggling*ad*requests.*This*may*explain *the*reason*why*we
    didn't*catch*the*mistake*in*the*ad,*but*I*doubt*we *would*have*anyway.*I
    have*been*unable*to*check*our*file*at*In*Motion.*W e*had*a*problem*with
    the*printer*this*time*out,*so*the*fault*could*very *well*be*there.
    ***I*would*suggest,*as*a*professional,*that*you*de velop*thicker*skin.
    No*one*was*blaming*anyone.*These*things*just*happe n.*If*you*need*to
    discuss*this*in*person,*my*information*is*attached .
    ***Again,*I*apologize*for*the*misunderstanding,*bu t*a*personal*attack
    on*my*professionalism*is*counterproductive.*If,*as *you*say,*you*would
    like*to*continue*advertising*with*us,*I*am*afraid* we*will*need*to
    receive*a*hard*copy*of*the*ad.*The*due*date*is*Oct .*20.*Thank*you.


    what a piece of work... well Jack ended up pulling their contract and she lost a client. she out and out admitted problems on their end. Stuff happens, but regardless of who's fault it is... you NEVER blame the client. so wrong. I thought you guys might like this one.

    oh and of course I had to respond to her on that one!I took the high road.

    Sorry you thought it was an attack on you... not my intention. But you have just admitted you are having problems there on your end, regardless of what they are, the final product should always be perfect (or as close to as you can get it). No matter who's fault it is... the client never gets the blame directed toward them.
    *
    I'm sorry for your problems, I know how it is. but it still doesn't justify your email to Jack. From what I know they are no longer going to advertise with your publication. I think that would be best.
    *
    Good luck in the future.
    *
    Joseph*Fauvel
    Coordinator,*Educational*Media/Communications


    'I will become the most powerful Jedi ever!'

    'I'm the damn designer, bitches!'
    "Even when I'm not at 100%, I'm still 110% better then anyone else!"

    Check out my indie comic books at http://www.crycomic.com and http://www.assassinsguild.net/

  • #2
    Maybe he/she is stressed out. This just sounds like someone who is over worked Joe. I'm not justifying there mistake I'm just saying that maybe they really where to busy to even know and the assumption on there part was wrong so you did prove your point.

    I kind of feel bad for them. =(


    Graphic Design Heroes! Call me Captain Type Caster. I’ve fought off “The Evil Cosmic Sans” for year but it seems “Dr. Extreme Untalent” keeps bringing him back. I must find a way to defeat this evil creature.

    Capt. Creative bring me those comps…

    Comment


    • #3
      I don't...she was rude and actually Jack told he he was pulling the contract and she basically said 'oh well'.

      I understand what she is going through... but you don't treat your clients in this way.

      'I will become the most powerful Jedi ever!'

      'I'm the damn designer, bitches!'
      "Even when I'm not at 100%, I'm still 110% better then anyone else!"

      Check out my indie comic books at http://www.crycomic.com and http://www.assassinsguild.net/

      Comment


      • #4
        yeah thats pretty bad maybe she sucks at life

        I wish I was allowed to throw rocks at people when they piss me off....or atleast shoot them with my glock 50 in the upper thigh area for punishment

        otto veblin = Zartan


        'yes here is your logo' - zartan
        'um dont like it can you add a swoosh?' - zartan
        'No I am the designer bitch now pay your bill!' - zartan
        - client leaves -

        Comment


        • #5
          I always assume that whoever the vendor is, that they could very well be the dumbest person on the planet. I include the PO# in the Email's subject and body. I also include the PO# in the file name. I fax them a hard copy of everything whether they ask for it or not. I spell every little thing out for them like they're a six-year-old because I am tired of problems that are not my fault screwing up an order. It's sad that we have to do things like this, but some people just cannot or will not do any thinking of their own.

          Sorry you had such a rotten experience, Joe.

          -JF

          The clothes do make the man. Naked people have little or no influence on society at large.

          Comment


          • #6
            Yea if she was rude that would change the whole thing.


            Graphic Design Heroes! Call me Captain Type Caster. I’ve fought off “The Evil Cosmic Sans” for year but it seems “Dr. Extreme Untalent” keeps bringing him back. I must find a way to defeat this evil creature.

            Capt. Creative bring me those comps…

            Comment


            • #7
              OMG - yeah what a piece of work. Here is where her problem was in her email to Jack:

              ....but*from*here*on out,*you*will*need*to*provide*us*with*a*hard*copy* or*take*what*you*get
              when*it*comes*out*in*print.

              So,*long*and*short,*we*will*kick*in*an*extra*ad,*b ut*the responsibility*for*the**viewability**of*the*ad*res ts*with*you.
              Let*me*know*how*you*want*to*proceed.


              Umm and then she goes back and says this:
              We just*began*the*semester*and*only*two*weeks*ago*fou nd*an*ad*manager,*so in*all*my*spare*time*--*which*is*little*considering*I*advise*the newspaper*and*teach*seven*classes*--*I*also*have*been*training*the*new manager*and*juggling*ad*requests.*This*may*explain *the*reason*why*we
              didn't*catch*the*mistake*in*the*ad,*but*I*doubt*we *would*have*anyway.*I
              have*been*unable*to*check*our*file*at*In*Motion.*W e*had*a*problem*with
              the*printer*this*time*out,*so*the*fault*could*very *well*be*there.


              Ok..WHAT A fkn crock! LOL!! When she emailed you BACK...she admitted they had problems and it COULD be there fault. You don't just blame your client - ever. That's just a not an option - espiecally without looking into the problem. If something comes out wrong in one of my papers...Yeah I call the press...I research on my end and they go back and have a look at the file on their end and we talk and figure out WHOSE problem it was....to keep it from happening again. She should have done the same. It's not a 'well that's how it is matter of fact' kinda thing. GRRR that crap makes me so aggrevated! In the end its always better to find out which end the problem is on and that way you can take more care next time to see it doesn't happen again. Why blame the client?? She is obviously one of those ppl who is never to blame and she wanted her a$$ covered.

              It may have been the file...but...c'mon...I can't really believe that Joe made the PDF and sent it off without looking at it to make sure it appeared correct on his end. I think he would have noticed the EMPTY black boxes..haha!

              I don't really feel sorry for her either. I mean stress is all a part of this ballgame. We all go through it ALL the time. I have to deal with ppl calling my name everything 5 minutes to fix something...they pull me away from deadline and everything...but if I mess up on something I can't say 'Oh...it's bc so and so pulled me away from my work'. No..if its my fault...its my fault. Period. I always admit to it. You just don't say its someone elses fault unless you are 100% sure of that.

              just my .02˘ ...heh ;o)

              Boobie Island or Bust!
              I blog, you blog, we all blog!

              Comment


              • #8
                well you 2˘ makes al lthe sense in the world.

                what she SHOULD have said is this:

                'sorry for the mess up, we would be happy to comp you the ad and I will make sure nothing else happens like this in the future'

                done! He would have said great... but he pulled the contract now cause he felt disrespected. tHAT you don't want your client to feel.

                'I will become the most powerful Jedi ever!'

                'I'm the damn designer, bitches!'
                "Even when I'm not at 100%, I'm still 110% better then anyone else!"

                Check out my indie comic books at http://www.crycomic.com and http://www.assassinsguild.net/

                Comment


                • #9
                  You Designers. Just because you can send a file via email and get it NOW NOW NOW doesn't mean you can skip the hard copy step. It's starting to become more and more common and it takes a lot of time out of my day making calls to people just so I can hear their verbal abuse as to how stupid I am cuz I can't work with their file.

                  The woman was completely justified in asking for hard copy. Goddam it we can't read minds. Sending a file electronically without backup, not even a friggin fax, I'd say you get what you get. How would I know whether you wanted that text to show on a black box or just forgot to remove it from under a graphic element if the black box shows up empty in the pdf? Happens every day. Pictures under pictures, text hanging out in margins, graphic elements shifted around - 'oh, I forgot to remove them' is the usual answer.

                  If I do 'thinking on my own' and it is the wrong decision who gets to pay for it? Me! You better believe it ain't you.

                  Sorry. You should have been ecstatic they kicked in the extra ad and left it at that, especially if they accomodated a late ad with no hard copy.

                  Yes, the tone did escalate, but Joe you started it and you were wrong. There was no unprofessionalism in her first reply and the answer she gave was not bogus. Even if they were having 'problems on their end' is this the only ad that came out wrong? If so, hmmm...
                  Think about it.

                  PrintDriver is a large format digital print dude. His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Sorry all I have to agree with PD on this one for all the reasons he said. Are we pre-press people really supposed to call up designers everytime we see something and ask if this is really what they want.

                    I love children but I don't think I could eat a whole one.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      PD...she still laid the blame on my client. to say he is responsible for the 'viewability' is bogus indeed. yes hard copy should have been sent...but common sense would dictate that 2 black boxes is not what someone wanted. A phone call to ask? what's that? also, you should know, regardless you don't say that to a client. It was rude and unprofessional. I sent Jack the file (he actually had sent it to her, so I don't know if she requested a hardcopy at that time) based on the specs she gave. Stuff does go wrong in the prepress stage. she admitted to having issues with her printer, etc. so I'm thinking ours was not the only one. for someone who is no taking blame she sure gave up an ad quick.

                      think about that one.

                      Also.. let's not get off on a tangent here... it's not the ad I'm upset with and nor was Jack...sure it came out wrong but he understood issues happen. It was her disrespect he didn't care for. I didn't even get the original email... he sent it to me and he was not happy with her.

                      I just found it rude.

                      'I will become the most powerful Jedi ever!'

                      'I'm the damn designer, bitches!'
                      "Even when I'm not at 100%, I'm still 110% better then anyone else!"

                      Check out my indie comic books at http://www.crycomic.com and http://www.assassinsguild.net/

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Kool,

                        that is what a proof is for.

                        you can say he gave no hard copy...she gave no proof. so it sort of evens out...doesn't it?

                        I understand her plight... I told her that. but regardless Jack doesn't really care, honestly.

                        all you guys know this.

                        I'm with you guys on this... I been on the prepress end, I know what can happen. I also know I got blamed a lot of client errors and I didn't have the right to say what she said. also I know DIRECTLY what she is saying cause I worked for a magazine so I would get in client ads. I would see issues and give a call.

                        but beyond that... she went a little too far with the initial email. she ended up costing her magazine a client.

                        'I will become the most powerful Jedi ever!'

                        'I'm the damn designer, bitches!'
                        "Even when I'm not at 100%, I'm still 110% better then anyone else!"

                        Check out my indie comic books at http://www.crycomic.com and http://www.assassinsguild.net/

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Guys, I don't think Defjoe was trying to advocate blame for the printer, rather the way in which she handled it was unprofessional. Most of us veterans here have had prepress experience, so we all know that crap in = crap out. But I am also aware that when something is sent to us, we print the darn thing out and take a look at it, to make sure it's all good to go.

                          Anyway, this kind of thing happens, but staying within what we all consider to be professional, I believe defjoe is correct on that call. She was far to rude, indirectly or otherwise in her dealing with Jack.

                          As for the problem with the file and the printing, let's NOT debate that...there could be a myriad number of ways it fell through the cracks (though NOT one of them being an error on Defjoe's part), so let's avoid that debate yes?

                          Rather, I think it is obvious that this woman has overstepped her bounds in this. I've advised clients on how to submit files before, but I've never gone out and laid the blame on them, even if I knew it was their fault. If I did, I would expect them to coutner-attack me, especially if they are graphic designers. Now, most of the time I deal with non-computer people submitting files...so I can't really get angry with them. But this kind of crap shouldn't happen.

                          "It's not cheating if you win."

                          - A VERY wise person.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Danke Magnus...you said my point better then I.

                            i checked the ad here and it was rechecked by Jack (he has a PC too).

                            i have yet to actually SEE the bad ad. but what is described to me seems very typical of a version problem.

                            'I will become the most powerful Jedi ever!'

                            'I'm the damn designer, bitches!'
                            "Even when I'm not at 100%, I'm still 110% better then anyone else!"

                            Check out my indie comic books at http://www.crycomic.com and http://www.assassinsguild.net/

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              I think the problem that the client has with her is that she was disrespectful...not that the ad was wrong. He didn't even seem upset that the ad was wrong.

                              I do agree with you guys on the hard copy of course...but I think for her to place the blame on the client was wrong..without doing any research on her end to see where the problem was. I am a big believer of finding out whose end the problem was on..bc if it was my fault...I wanna be sure I prevent it from happening in the future.

                              I put alotta trust into the press I run with bc if I had to send hard copies for all 64 pages when I only have 4 hours to do the layout + the 64 PDFs and upload, then I would NEVER get it done...allthough I DID offer to send them hard copies every week. They told me no bc of our need for such a quick turn around to meet our street date weekly. But at the same time...they look over every page that I send them..every week. I get sometimes 4 calls in an hour bc the prepress guy wasn't sure that something was suppose to be 'that way'. But that's his call. He can or can not call me...I trust him. He calls me with the littlest things sometimes but I fully appreciate that he does this and I make sure he knows I appreciate it.

                              I FULLY agree that we as the designers have the responsibility to send a hard copy for the printer so they know what the output should look like...but JUST because the client didn't...doesn't mean that the error is his. It's not about who is right and who is wrong...it's about WHAT is the problem and how do we avoid it in the future....IMO of course. I just think that placing the blame is bad mojo...and it is unprofessional.

                              Boobie Island or Bust!
                              I blog, you blog, we all blog!

                              Comment

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