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Article: Coping With Clients Who Use Your Concept Design Without Paying

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  • #31
    I’m quite skilled with a sewing machine and pattern, but that doesn’t grant me the talent, skill, or right to call myself a fashion designer.
    So true in the design world. Just because you can use the program, doesn't mean you have design skills.
    It is more fun to talk with someone who doesn't use long, difficult words but rather short, easy words like "What about lunch?" – Winnie the Pooh

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    • #32
      "It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that is all.

      When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot -it can't be done.

      IF YOU DEAL WITH THE LOWEST BIDDER, IT IS WELL TO ADD SOMETHING FOR THE RISK YOU RUN and if you do that, you will have enough to pay for something better."

      Wise Words....

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      • #33
        Im NOT defending them, but I will say I've worked in companies that the owners/managers making the decision to re-purpose some artwork that someone did into something else, just dont know any better.

        I've seen some that do, but most are just ignorant with no idea of the whole copyright process. They figure, its their logo, so anything you do with it must be theirs.

        Ive had to explain it many time to people like that.

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        • #34
          Originally posted by creative 3d
          "It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that is all.

          When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot -it can't be done.

          IF YOU DEAL WITH THE LOWEST BIDDER, IT IS WELL TO ADD SOMETHING FOR THE RISK YOU RUN and if you do that, you will have enough to pay for something better."

          Wise Words....
          Yes I do agree!
          www.zombo.com

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          • #35
            Yeah I agree too. I love a good bargain, but sometimes I end up buying a product that doesn't work at all. In those cases, I might as well has chucked my money into the toilet. It's a fine line between a good deal and buying a piece of junk.
            It is more fun to talk with someone who doesn't use long, difficult words but rather short, easy words like "What about lunch?" – Winnie the Pooh

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            • #36
              I had a "friend" do that to me. I pitched 3 ideas for a pc design, one was chosen, designed, printed. After a few months of being busy, we naturally grew apart, I then saw one of my other pitches, made of 72dpi images from her site, and photocopied to quarter page. I couldn't believe I atleast wasn't asked if it was ok. LOL. I got the final laugh though because it looked awful!

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              • #37
                Great article, can anyone email me the document he has at the bottom, i cant seem to download it.
                From where we are, to where we'd rather be...
                www.blueprintmedia.com.au

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                • #38
                  Originally posted by budafist
                  Slap them with a wet fish.
                  dirty fish slapper!!!
                  http://www.godspeedstudios.bravehost.com

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by panzer
                    morea a question

                    what if we design say a leaflet or some one and (we print it ) then later on they get some one else to do a leaflet that is nearly 90% the same as we had given them in the past

                    the point is if they paid for it isnt it now fully theirs
                    Not necessarily. Unless your contract stipulated that the price includes transferal of all rights including the right to alter the artwork then they are in breach of copyright.

                    Copyright includes the prevention of altering existing artwork. Now, even if they recreate the artwork from scratch, if it's still provably derivative of your original piece, you can go after them. 90% similiar would be fair game, I believe, although you'd have to convince a judge of the degree of similarity.

                    Originally posted by bejamshi
                    You can not sue them if they don't live in canada or the states. many countries are using copyright material all the time. I will not name the countries but they are many.
                    Only half true. Any designer working in a country that signed up for the Bern Convention for the Protection of Copyrights is likely to be fair game for sueing. As you can see from the map on that article, very few countries are excluded.

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                    • #40
                      Though I am not familiar with technical terms, I still should it is a great work.

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                      • #41
                        Hi everyone-I am new to this forum. and the reason I ended up here is because I googled for designer forum to see if anyone has been in the same situation as me. This article could not be more dead on. this is exactly what i am dealing with right now (or better yet: WAS dealing with yesterday! Coz I am walking away from the whole thing).

                        I was employed in design industry for 10 years. I have dealt with many clients during that time - through company and also through some freelance jobs on the side. 2 months ago i have relocated to a new country and i am not employed at the moment, so i thought I would try and make some money through some freelance work. I've gone online, looking for projects - bid on couple of them. And one of the 'potential clients' came back to me asking me to supply him with couple of proposals - all of this while the project is still in bidding phase (project, BTW, is for the company logo). I nicely responded to him, explaining that I can not do that due to the .... well: facts known to all of you guys who are designer (and points well covered in the article posted). I provided him with few of the work samples and explained to him that my abilities as a designer can be seen in the samples I sent him. He didn't like that I guess, because his response to that was: Well, how will I know you will give me quality work?
                        So I decided to just not even respond to that - I am not the only person who bid on this project and if some of the other designers are willing to spend couple of hours doing free work, so be it. I am not ready to undersell myself, the same way I am not ready to bid $50 for creating a corporate logo for someone.

                        I am happy to see .... well, this doesn't sound right and I don't mean it in a bad way ... I am glad to see that i am not the only one who is dealing with this problem.

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                        • #42
                          We recently had a bit of a dodgy do with a customer of ours (we are a print company with a graphic design dept.). Essentially, our wally of a sales director made one of us do some 'spec' work - design new logos for this company for free til they found one they liked. WELL, after taking the designs away and not coming back to us at all about it (and this is a company we do a lot of work for), the guy who did the work saw a van go past one day with....dum dum dum! One of the logos he'd designed on it. They'd taken them away, then gone to a 'marketing' company, got them to recreate then put this logo on a load of new business stationary, and i had a look on this company's site - they are claiming the 'rebrand' was done by them and have it in their online portfolio. C***S. Plus - get this - we have a job in for the 'rebranded' company - to set the new letterhead here using a photocopy of the marketing company's design. WTF?????!!!!!!! Especially seeing as they've been in touch with the marketing company to get the logo from them, in order for us to reset it. Hello? Why not get the file for the letterhead while you're at it.... once again C***S.

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                          • #43
                            I think it is the most shameful thing a client can do. I totally agree, this article is a must read.

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                            • #44
                              I don't know if it works in today's market, but.....
                              about 10 or 15 years ago, I was sitting next to a lawyer in a pub and started talking to him about this specific issue. He told me to try and use what is called "the poor man's copyright." Basically, before you hand over proofs to a client, mail a copy of those proofs to yourself and keep it sealed. That way there is an official dated stamp of the proofs, so if it comes to going to court that mail is considered a government sealed document, and the company who took advantage of you will have a hard time showing they had the work done before that specific date. He told me he helped a client with a case like this and ended up getting his client a lot more money than what the original job was suppose to be.

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                              • #45
                                Sorry for the double post. I was looking for an example online after I wrote the above post and from what I have found out, the "Poor man's copyright" is not such a great idea, apparently it is to easily manipulated these days. They should come out with some kind of law that would help protect us creatives. I don't think that every time you create something for a company you should have to go through the red tape of copyrighting, plus the additional costs. As a Graphic Designer it seems it would be hard to copyright a name that a client already owns, but you need to make a logo for. I wonder how you go about fixing that particular problem.

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