Production issue and calculating estimated time for a project.

hyperkill · 07-27-2012, 02:49 AM

Can you do a sample run on how long you think it'd take you to do some pages and then multiply that out?

It might help for you to set a goal for yourself (realistic) for a certain number of pages by a certain time completed. When you start putting pressure on yourself in this way things may fall better in line in terms of time. Research what a SMART goal is and follow it exactly without compromise. When you miss your goal, think about why you didn't hit the target and how you can fix it on the next round.

I try and build a strong relationship with the client so when pricing issues come up we can negotiate and come to an agreement. If the relationship isn't built your bid will simply get tossed out if it is too high. Negotiations also give you an opportunity to sell your value to the client...value does not mean price. Talk about the results you will deliver for them on the current project, or have delivered in the past.

PrintDriver · 07-27-2012, 11:41 AM

Graphic design is deadline driven. In some cases, the deadline is more important if there is an event hanging at the end of it.
If you've had two employers over the space of two whole years tell you that you are too slow, you either need to practice more on your own time with all the tutorials you can lay hands on or you may not be cut out for deadline driven career tracks. On the tutorials, don't follow them word for word or step by step. Look at the brief, the end result and try it yourself without the steps. If you get hung up, only then go back and read what you could have done to make it simpler. There are a lot of ways to get to the same end result.

I would be more concerned about the lack of supplied copy or photos. A teen sex manual would also require copy that appeals to the teen mind. If you don't have practice writing such stuff geared toward certain age levels, you will totally fail this assignment. If you don't know how to do research, and a lot of students don't, you will spend far more time than you should just doing that. Copy writing should be a separate part of the project and should be completed BEFORE you even begin to design this thing.

BTW, what Teenager is going to read 120 pages?????

Cisco1 · 07-27-2012, 01:35 PM

Originally posted by PrintDriver View Post

Graphic design is deadline driven. In some cases, the deadline is more important if there is an event hanging at the end of it.
If you've had two employers over the space of two whole years tell you that you are too slow, you either need to practice more on your own time with all the tutorials you can lay hands on or you may not be cut out for deadline driven career tracks. ...
BTW, what Teenager is going to read 120 pages?????

PD is right, deadlines are the driving force and sometimes you have to remember that good is good enough. I spent alot of time in the newspaper industry and you get used to the panic of Just In Time delivery of the content. Creativity is wonderful but deadlines are real.
And 120 pages---hope you have LOTS of photos!

**PanToshi** · 07-27-2012, 01:57 PM

Originally posted by spacedog View Post

it's take time to get over the ''blank page syndrom'' and I take more time than usual with tools.

You need to reduce the time wasted staring at the blank page. Do you sketch at all? If you don't, start. You will find ideas flow better. Why do you take more time than usual with tools? Are you not familiar enough with them? You can improve that with more practice.

Good Luck

Nobert · 07-27-2012, 02:04 PM

I've found that perhaps the biggest and hardest brick wall for me to try and get around is accepting the compromise that comes from short deadlines. But, it is what it is, sometimes you just have to suck it up.

I just did a cover illustration for a local publication; I had a lot of trouble with it, had to rush out the final thing, and am not totally happy with the results, and now I'll have to see it on newsstands for the next month. But, hey, I got it done, and I think it served its purpose. Do the best you're capable of under the circumstances and try to do better the next time. That's the best rule of thumb I've worked out for this kind of thing.

(The ability to get by on 4-5 hours of sleep doesn't hurt either. )

Ratkins · 07-27-2012, 04:35 PM

I wish there were a magic creativity pill for those times when all I can do is look at a blank page and wonder what to do. However, once the idea comes, it helps to have production skills that enable you to work faster.

Are you using just the mouse, or have you learned the keyboard shortcuts in your design program of choice? If you're mousing around, it will take longer to do simple tasks. After a while they become automatic and you can concentrate on the design.

I agree with the others - sometimes good is good enough.

Good luck.

Janet

PrintDriver · 07-27-2012, 04:55 PM

I don't like all this talk about good is good enough, though it explains a lot about the current state of Graphic Design.

Wouldn't it be sweet if every single company that deals in deadline driven product took a step back, fired all the sales staff that can't stay on top of their clients for content, hired ones that can, actually dunned clients for rush charges instead of just threatening, and actually took responsibility for putting out a good product, instead of just good enough.
</dreaming>

Ratkins · 07-27-2012, 05:22 PM

PD, I don't think anyone is proud of feeling that way. I sure wouldn't admit it to one of my customers, and I'm lucky that ones that got "good enough" were happy.

Janet

JeffSC · 07-27-2012, 05:26 PM

I was just given about 30 minutes to put together a postcard so it could go to print today. As much as I absolutely hate it, good had to be good enough. That's not the type of work that made me get into design, but it's what keeps me employed. I've got some pretty fun projects going on too, but it seems that turning around these last-minute, total panic jobs is what impresses the bosses most. You have to absolutely flat-out refuse to miss deadlines, no matter how stupid they might be.

Spacedog, You need to figure out what's slowing you down. Is it the creative process, and idea generation? If so, there are some exercises that are supposed to help with creativity. I've seen lots of "activity" books at the bookstore for this. Make sure you start by sketching, and don't hold yourself back. Put all your ideas on paper, even if you're already convinced they aren't good. Once the pencil starts moving, and your eyes start to see real things, better ideas will come. If your slowdown is in the software, make sure you're using shortcuts whenever possible. Both hands always need to be working, one on the mouse, the other on keyboard. Push yourself to do things faster, and find a workflow that speeds things up. Regarding estimating time, that will come with experience.

kemingMatters · 07-27-2012, 05:26 PM

Originally posted by PrintDriver View Post

I don't like all this talk about good is good enough, though it explains a lot about the current state of Graphic Design.

Wouldn't it be sweet if every single company that deals in deadline driven product took a step back, fired all the sales staff that can't stay on top of their clients for content, hired ones that can, actually dunned clients for rush charges instead of just threatening, and actually took responsibility for putting out a good product, instead of just good enough.
</dreaming>

Me either. I've declined jobs where the deadline is too tight to produce work that meets my personal standard of quality. Bad things usually happen in super rush scenarios. Now I'm not saying I don't work on tight deadlines, I do quite often, I just refuse to provide "good enough" to my clients. If you condition your clients to think that "I need it last week" is okay, you'll end up designing "good enough" for the rest of your career.

With something like a 120 page booklet, it's easily broken down into sections and formatting that will be consistent on most pages. Generally speaking it will require designing, a cover, a title page, an introduction page, a table of contents, and a content page (or spread) which will be the template for all of the content + any other oddball one off pages. After that it's just formatting content.

If the content is consistent, take advantage of nested paragraph styles, sequential nested paragraph styles, character styles, object styles, master pages, and master text frames by setting them up, it will save you a lot of time.

For the content, I would suggest hiring a writer, get what they wrote approved by the client, then design it.

tZ · 07-27-2012, 05:32 PM

The main question dictating cost is whether copy and photos will be supplied. If not you have to factor in content which is probably going to cost more than the design itself. I mean without content you are basically being asked to write a book and design it…

Cisco1 · 07-27-2012, 05:34 PM

Originally posted by PrintDriver View Post

I don't like all this talk about good is good enough, though it explains a lot about the current state of Graphic Design.

Wouldn't it be sweet if every single company that deals in deadline driven product took a step back, fired all the sales staff that can't stay on top of their clients for content, hired ones that can, actually dunned clients for rush charges instead of just threatening, and actually took responsibility for putting out a good product, instead of just good enough.
</dreaming>

But in reality, if the client is happy(you have met or exceeded the expectation they had) and you get paid but don't feel it is your best work then who is wrong?

We tend to expect more from ourselves, and that is fine, but in reality, the customer is king. And if they give tight deadlines and we accept the job and they are willing to pay for what is delivered then how is that not good enough?

Bob · 07-27-2012, 07:20 PM

Originally posted by Cisco1 View Post

But in reality, if the client is happy(you have met or exceeded the expectation they had) and you get paid but don't feel it is your best work then who is wrong?

We tend to expect more from ourselves, and that is fine, but in reality, the customer is king. And if they give tight deadlines and we accept the job and they are willing to pay for what is delivered then how is that not good enough?

This is where we're quite different from other professions. We'll lament the low standards of work quality, or how it's impossible to sell our best stuff these days. Then we'll sink down to those low standards just to pay the bills. Because? Because.... everyone else out there has forced us to! By not.... acting... like... professionals?

In the long run? Competing with the bottom brings everyone down.

PrintDriver · 07-27-2012, 07:26 PM

There is nothing wrong with saying, no it can't be done. There are instances where rushing can work, and you can do quality work while rushing but if there is just not enough time, you need to recognize that and explain to your client why.

Production issue and calculating estimated time for a project.

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