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  • Tardiness to work

    #1
    Not sure this is the right section for this, so Mods, please feel free to move it if this is the wrong section.

    I am a good worker. My boss has acknowledged this. However, if he had to name a fault in me, it's that I'm not always on time. Maybe it's the Mexican side of me coming out, but I do have a problem being punctual. (FYI In Mexico, there seems to be a general problem with being late. Tell someone to be there at 2pm, they'll show up at around 3 or 4pm. No idea why.)

    So, yesteday and today, I came in late. My boss sent me an email today:

    You were late to work again yesterday, Tuesday, 10/9/2012. According to the security system you came in at 8:04 a.m. Again, you are a valued employee and we need you here on time.

    I’ve reviewed the security recordings from the last time we talked about you being late until today, and I’ve found you are coming in right at 8:00 a.m. each morning. I had hoped you would arrive before 8:00 a.m. today, but you arrived right at 8:00 a.m. again today. This leaves you no time for unexpected occurrences that might make you late to work.

    I would like for you to submit to me in writing exactly how you plan to make sure you are not late to work in the future as this is becoming a problem. While I can’t, and won’t instruct you to come in early, many people do just that to make sure they are not late to work. Again, I AM NOT instructing you to come to work early. If you decide to come in a couple of minutes early to avoid being late that is up to you. Should you decide to do so, you could take care of personal things before the workday starts at 8:00 a.m.

    Please submit your plan to me by the end of the day on Friday. It does not have to be long. I just want to know how you plan to address the problem. You should work on the plan during your regular working hours.

    When you completed the plan done please print two copies of this e-mail, and two copies of your plan. We will sign and date both when you submit your plan to me. A copy of this e-mail and your signed plan will be place in your personnel file.

    My question is, can he legally do that? Require me to submit a plan to fix my tardiness and keep it in my personnel file?

    EDIT: Just noticed, there was no mention of Monday morning, when I arrived early to work. No one else was here. Also, it feels hypocritcal of him to say all this, when he's usually not here in the morning until 9am-ish. He has back problems that often prevent him from coming in to work, sometimes all day. I get that he's the boss, but still... It's "Do as I say, not as I do."
    Last edited by AresGoddess; 10-10-2012, 07:59 PM.

  • #2
    <<< not a lawyer, however I don't believe he can require you to be in before your scheduled work day unless he plans to pay you for that time.

    He can require you to be on time. Habitual tardiness is a valid reason for dismissal.

    Comment


    • #3
      So, he's angry over you being 4 minutes late?

      I don't really understand his email. He says he doesn't require you to come in early, but doesn't like that you've been coming in right at 8:00?

      Comment


      • #4
        Wow, sure they can do a lot of things.
        Tardiness can be a cause for dismissal.
        To some tardiness is a sign of not caring.
        To others it means you might stay 5 minutes (or what have you) late that day to makeup such time.
        And some might not notice as long as the work is completed as needed.

        I was reprimanded big time once for being late…there was an Executive Mtg that started 30 minutes prior to the normal workday. We were told to arrive before that time. I arrived 5 minutes after that time. I left early and got held up in traffic, plus getting my son ready and to daycare in the morning can be swift or can be a hurdle/obstacle on top of any traffic that may impede my intent of arriving on time or earlier.

        You can make a bunch of excuses/reasons to be earlier, setting alarm earlier, taking shorter showers, ironing clothes at night, leaving 10 minutes or more earlier, having lunch ready the night before, speed in transit, etc. but whatever you do, it probably won't last as you have said before…it seems an ingrained thing already.

        Your boss wants you to come in early. The time you've arrived at 8am is still not good enough (guessing you start at 8) and your boss is stealthily suggested not to tell you to arrive early but states how others do so. Keeping it in your personnel file is a way to track tardiness and "use it against you if need be" I am NOT saying that to scare you but to perhaps let you know the potential it has.

        Do you ever stay late, work on projects at home, or work through a lunch? You could be a bit of a "jerk" and say what steps you will take to ensure you arrive before 8am and in doing so, it should mean you won't have to stay late, work on the weekends or work through lunch again. (this shows that you may not arrive on time but are currently taking steps to make up the time.) I was once at a company that had another department complain that our department "left like a train at 5pm on the dot" to our VP and he came down on the managers to say not to do that. The problem is, that department didn't arrive to work until 9-10am, after we had been there 1-1.5 hours earlier. We devised a plan of walking out through various exits so not to be train-like.

        Anyway, bust your ass to get there early. In a few weeks time the sun (if in US) should be brighter in the AM thanks to daylight savings time ending…if you are in one of the states, towns that follows that.

        *not sure if this is a helpful post*
        and it may be that your work, and could be in any state?, where it says you should begin to work promptly at "xx" time...meaning you don't arrive at "xx" time since you need to walk to desk, get situated and into work mode.

        Comment


        • #5
          I've never heard of anyone getting written up for being on time. That's kind of obnoxious.

          Comment


          • #6
            being on time is being late, i always try to get in 5 minutes or so early to avoid a situation like that. sure traffic and life happen, but a 8am start time means you should be at your desk and ready to work at 8am.

            Comment


            • #7
              Apparently it's a pretty big deal to him. Also, apparently you aren't really that late. Leave home five or ten minutes earlier or find a work place that has a looser relationship with punctuality.

              Discalimer - Tardiness is one of my pet peeves.

              Comment


              • #8
                Around here, there is a time keeping mode called "island time". I hope it isn't construed as un-PC or insensitive, it's not my intention. In the Pacific, many places don't run by clocks so when someone says to meet at 9am island time, it means sometime in the morning. Things take as long as they take.

                Your boss is being too pedantic, but I work in a very relaxed environment. Generally, we're treated like grown ups and we come in, do our work and go home. I don't ask permission for a day off or to work a half day, I book it in. I'm paid by wages though so if I come in late/early, I get paid less/more. Tardiness annoys me too but only because I've punctual.

                He did say:
                While I can’t, and won’t instruct you to come in early,
                and your boss can require you to be on time. That's all. I'm usually a couple minutes early but my co worker is reliably 15-30 minutes late, but my boss doesn't do anything about that.

                Whether or not he can do what he's doing legally, he still feels like he's in the right so I guess you need to do something to get him off your back. You could send him back a letter thanking him for noticing that you have been excellent at being on time and that you hope to keep it that way but coming in early is not part of your plan.
                Last edited by Buda; 10-10-2012, 08:34 PM.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Red Kittie Kat View Post
                  <<< not a lawyer, however I don't believe he can require you to be in before your scheduled work day unless he plans to pay you for that time.

                  He can require you to be on time. Habitual tardiness is a valid reason for dismissal.
                  He has mentioned this before, so not a surprise there. In his email, he states "from the last time we talked about you being late until today" and that is a reference to the last time I was written up, but that was because I was an hour late and only texted to my other boss that I would be late. He required me to call in to his cell, and not my other boss. Which didn't really make sense to me, since he is usually not the one who's here in the morning, she is. But whatever.

                  I think what really bothers me about this "plan" that I need to submit, is that if I don't adher to it, and it WILL take me a while to fix my habit, that I will get dismissed more easily, than if I DIDN'T submit one...

                  Originally posted by Sketcher View Post
                  So, he's angry over you being 4 minutes late?

                  I don't really understand his email. He says he doesn't require you to come in early, but doesn't like that you've been coming in right at 8:00?
                  Yeah, I don't know... He and his wife/business partner are very odd about the rules they give. Mostly to the ends of not having to pay more.

                  Originally posted by BJMRamage View Post
                  Wow, sure they can do a lot of things.
                  Tardiness can be a cause for dismissal.
                  To some tardiness is a sign of not caring.
                  To others it means you might stay 5 minutes (or what have you) late that day to makeup such time.
                  And some might not notice as long as the work is completed as needed.

                  I was reprimanded big time once for being late…there was an Executive Mtg that started 30 minutes prior to the normal workday. We were told to arrive before that time. I arrived 5 minutes after that time. I left early and got held up in traffic, plus getting my son ready and to daycare in the morning can be swift or can be a hurdle/obstacle on top of any traffic that may impede my intent of arriving on time or earlier.

                  You can make a bunch of excuses/reasons to be earlier, setting alarm earlier, taking shorter showers, ironing clothes at night, leaving 10 minutes or more earlier, having lunch ready the night before, speed in transit, etc. but whatever you do, it probably won't last as you have said before…it seems an ingrained thing already.

                  Your boss wants you to come in early. The time you've arrived at 8am is still not good enough (guessing you start at 8) and your boss is stealthily suggested not to tell you to arrive early but states how others do so. Keeping it in your personnel file is a way to track tardiness and "use it against you if need be" I am NOT saying that to scare you but to perhaps let you know the potential it has.

                  Do you ever stay late, work on projects at home, or work through a lunch? You could be a bit of a "jerk" and say what steps you will take to ensure you arrive before 8am and in doing so, it should mean you won't have to stay late, work on the weekends or work through lunch again. (this shows that you may not arrive on time but are currently taking steps to make up the time.) I was once at a company that had another department complain that our department "left like a train at 5pm on the dot" to our VP and he came down on the managers to say not to do that. The problem is, that department didn't arrive to work until 9-10am, after we had been there 1-1.5 hours earlier. We devised a plan of walking out through various exits so not to be train-like.

                  Anyway, bust your ass to get there early. In a few weeks time the sun (if in US) should be brighter in the AM thanks to daylight savings time ending…if you are in one of the states, towns that follows that.

                  *not sure if this is a helpful post*
                  and it may be that your work, and could be in any state?, where it says you should begin to work promptly at "xx" time...meaning you don't arrive at "xx" time since you need to walk to desk, get situated and into work mode.
                  I actually do try really really hard to be a couple minutes early, at least. What ends up tripping me up is the little things. I only live 25 minutes away from the office. Not a big deal, usually, but I have to cross two train tracks to get to the expressway. Sometimes, I get stuck behind a train. Not often, but it's happened. Sometimes, the morning traffic is heavier, sometimes it's lighter. That usually depends on the two hospitals I pass by, but traffic also tends to get choked up near the Starbucks. It varies, of course.

                  But usually, it's me. I can't seem to wake up on time or get going fast enough. I try to go to bed early, and I end up not being able to fall asleep. Then I can't get up in the morning. When my husband works the morning shift (7am), I have to wait for him to finish before I can start getting ready, which also involves walking and feeding the dogs. I shower at night, I (generally) don't need to iron my clothes, my lunch is ready (most of the time) and only needs to be placed in my lunch box. I quit browsing the internet in the morning, I don't eat breakfast, and my wardrobe is mix and match. (My sister, the fashionista, hates this, but it works for me.) If I'm out the door by 7:35am, I'll be early by about 5-6 minutes, depending on traffic. If I leave by 7:25am, that gives me enought time to stop at the corner store to get breakfast and coffee. This has not happened in a really long time... But for some reason, stuff keeps happening and I end up leaving closer to 7:45am. And then hauling ass to get there right at 8:00am.

                  Originally posted by Designia View Post
                  I've never heard of anyone getting written up for being on time. That's kind of obnoxious.
                  "If you're on time, you're five minutes late." Heard that somewhere...not sure where... =/

                  Originally posted by Typically View Post
                  being on time is being late, i always try to get in 5 minutes or so early to avoid a situation like that. sure traffic and life happen, but a 8am start time means you should be at your desk and ready to work at 8am.
                  *sigh* I know...

                  Originally posted by Lith View Post
                  Apparently it's a pretty big deal to him. Also, apparently you aren't really that late. Leave home five or ten minutes earlier or find a work place that has a looser relationship with punctuality.

                  Discalimer - Tardiness is one of my pet peeves.
                  It's only a big deal when it's his employees (all two of us) are the ones that are late. *sigh* I actually have been trying to find a new job, one that is closer to where I live, but in this area, it's hard to find graphic design jobs.

                  Disclaimer: It's my pet peeve too, but only where I'm concerned. I'd rather break the speed limit by 20mph than be late. This whole tardy thing has me stressed out majorly.

                  Originally posted by Buda View Post
                  Around here, there is a time keeping mode called "island time". I hope it isn't construed as un-PC or insensitive, it's not my intention. In the Pacific, many places don't run by clocks so when someone says to meet at 9am island time, it means sometime in the morning. Things take as long as they take.

                  Your boss is being too pedantic, but I work in a very relaxed environment. Generally, we're treated like grown ups and we come in, do our work and go home. I don't ask permission for a day off or to work a half day, I book it in. I'm paid by wages though so if I come in late/early, I get paid less/more. Tardiness annoys me too but only because I've punctual.

                  He did say:
                  While I can’t, and won’t instruct you to come in early,
                  and your boss can require you to be on time. That's all. I'm usually a couple minutes early but my co worker is reliably 15-30 minutes late, but my boss doesn't do anything about that.

                  Whether or not he can do what he's doing legally, he still feels like he's in the right so I guess you need to do something to get him off your back. You could send him back a letter thanking him for noticing that you have been excellent at being on time and that you hope to keep it that way but coming in early is not part of your plan.
                  I know exactly why he's doing it. The girl who had the job before me...they never documented her bad work behavior, and it took 7 years before they could fire her. She had sloppy work and played games when there was no artwork to be done, instead of doing clerical work. I think there's other stuff, but that's all I know of her. Never met her.
                  According to what I learned in the management class I took ages ago, after 2 verbal warnings and 3 written ones, I can be dismissed. Might be a little off on the exact numbers, but not by too much. I don't think he'll accept your suggestion, but I'll keep it in mind.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Sounds like your boss is loading his gun, so to speak. He stressed that he is not breaking any rules (by NOT instructing you to show up early), but is getting it down on paper that he has has an issue with your tardiness. He's shown that he feels even four minutes is excessive, so if he ever feels further action is necessary he can back it up.

                    I used to be habitually late to work. I lived less than two miles from my job and was still late every day (just a few minutes, but every day). No one ever said anything to me until my boss felt he had a different reason to get rid of me. Then he told me, in a sneaky way, do this or I'll fire you for excessive tardiness. It sucked and that guy was a douche, but it was an effective eye opener to how some business people work. Your boss can note whatever he feels is poor behavior in your personnel file. Him asking you to make a plan to correct the problem may be something he's required to do if he feels this is something that needs, or will need, disciplinary action.

                    Typ makes a good point. If work starts at 8, you need to be there, sitting at your work station, ready to begin working at 8. Not walking through the door. It sucks, but you're going to need to figure out a way to be on time.

                    What finally worked for me was I set the time on the clock in my bedroom 19 minutes fast (no, I don't know why it's 19). I've been doing it for years and it still works every time. Wake up, the clock says it's 6:30, I panic because I'm already late. By the time I'm halfway ready to go, I see a different clock with the real time and see that I'm fine. You think you could convince yourself that you start work at 7:45? Then you should be golden for 8.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      I have to admit, "just in time" arrival to work is foreign to me. When I was younger, I was mostly a musician. "Rehearsal starts at 7:30 p.m." meant "arrive no later than 7:15 p.m. in order to assemble your instrument, make last-minute adjustments to your reeds, assemble your sheet music in rehearsal order, and be prepared for a downbeat at 7:30 p.m. sharp." People who showed up on time were late.

                      These days the alarm goes off at 5 a.m., I hit snooze until 5:30, I'm out the door by 5:40 (I shower in the evening and have no kids, furry or not, to deal with), and I'm pulling into the garage at the work around 6 a.m.

                      I start work at 7 a.m.

                      Before 7, I look for redballs in email, eat breakfast, read the newspaper, and swat overnight spammers that Kittie, Kitch, and PanToshi haven't. But the boss knows and trusts that by 6:58 a.m. every workday I've got my head in the job. (I make sure of that by starting to reply to emails earlier than 7 a.m.)

                      I'm three months away from my 34th anniversary with the company.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by KitchWitch View Post
                        Sounds like your boss is loading his gun, so to speak. He stressed that he is not breaking any rules (by NOT instructing you to show up early), but is getting it down on paper that he has has an issue with your tardiness. He's shown that he feels even four minutes is excessive, so if he ever feels further action is necessary he can back it up.

                        I used to be habitually late to work. I lived less than two miles from my job and was still late every day (just a few minutes, but every day). No one ever said anything to me until my boss felt he had a different reason to get rid of me. Then he told me, in a sneaky way, do this or I'll fire you for excessive tardiness. It sucked and that guy was a douche, but it was an effective eye opener to how some business people work. Your boss can note whatever he feels is poor behavior in your personnel file. Him asking you to make a plan to correct the problem may be something he's required to do if he feels this is something that needs, or will need, disciplinary action.

                        Typ makes a good point. If work starts at 8, you need to be there, sitting at your work station, ready to begin working at 8. Not walking through the door. It sucks, but you're going to need to figure out a way to be on time.

                        What finally worked for me was I set the time on the clock in my bedroom 19 minutes fast (no, I don't know why it's 19). I've been doing it for years and it still works every time. Wake up, the clock says it's 6:30, I panic because I'm already late. By the time I'm halfway ready to go, I see a different clock with the real time and see that I'm fine. You think you could convince yourself that you start work at 7:45? Then you should be golden for 8.
                        My clock is set 8 minutes fast in the bedroom, 6 minutes fast in the kitchen and 7 minutes fast in my car. I think what really fouls me up is the whole sleep thing. When I first started this job, I was going to bed at 10pm. I was living with my grandmother at the time. She and her caretaker/housemate would watch novelas until about 10 or 10:30pm (depending on the day) and I didn't have much else to do, so I went to bed early. The most I would do before sleeping was read or play video games on my DS, and even that I didn't do very often because it tends to keep me up. Now, three years later, I have my own place, I'm married, and I have two dogs that require my attention/energy. And I still play the video games. I end up staying up late, like 11pm or midnight. I wake up later than I used to, by about an hour or so, but I'm getting less sleep. I try to go to bed early, and I'm unable to sleep. My body is set for going to bed late, and it'll take time to break that habit (without sleep aids). I don't know if I'll be able to break this habit in time to not get fired over it.

                        At the same time, the job is different from when I started three years ago. When I started working there, I only had to drive 6 miles, about 15 minutes. Now, I have to drive 12.5 miles, about 25 minutes. In an effort to save money, my bosses relocated the business from the city's industrial park to the front end of the property they live on. It's a pretty big property, imo, and their house is on the back side of it. It's a five minute walk from the house to the office. Two if you drive. They usually drive. In separate vehicles. I have to admit, I feel a bit...jealous...angry... even resentful over this. My car is pretty good on gas mileage, I'm still using a gallon of gas a day to get to work. But that used to involve coming home for lunch. Now I'm stuck at the office all day, unless I want to go pick something up from in town. It's annoying, and gets expensive. My former co-worker quit back in February, and that was one of the reasons. And she made more per hour than I did! And I just realized I totally went off on a tangent... Oops... I am just tired of my job there, I guess... My new co-worker is tired of the job and she's only been there a few months! Though we do different things. Maybe I'm subconsciously trying to leave the company? I mean, everyone who has worked there has the same problem. The problem is my boss and his attitude towards us, even his wife! But that's another rant... Ugh...I need to find a new job... -_-; And I still don't know what to do about this stupid "plan" I need to submit... Part of me wants to just quit...like 10% of me...50% says find another job, then quit, and write a very long, very detailed letter on why he's a problem...and the last 40% says just stay with the company, who knows if you'll do better anywhere else.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by garricks View Post
                          I have to admit, "just in time" arrival to work is foreign to me. When I was younger, I was mostly a musician. "Rehearsal starts at 7:30 p.m." meant "arrive no later than 7:15 p.m. in order to assemble your instrument, make last-minute adjustments to your reeds, assemble your sheet music in rehearsal order, and be prepared for a downbeat at 7:30 p.m. sharp." People who showed up on time were late.

                          These days the alarm goes off at 5 a.m., I hit snooze until 5:30, I'm out the door by 5:40 (I shower in the evening and have no kids, furry or not, to deal with), and I'm pulling into the garage at the work around 6 a.m.

                          I start work at 7 a.m.

                          Before 7, I look for redballs in email, eat breakfast, read the newspaper, and swat overnight spammers that Kittie, Kitch, and PanToshi haven't. But the boss knows and trusts that by 6:58 a.m. every workday I've got my head in the job. (I make sure of that by starting to reply to emails earlier than 7 a.m.)

                          I'm three months away from my 34th anniversary with the company.
                          And that is a few more reasons why you are the man. I really admire everyone who's got the punctuality/early bird thing down. Especially the one's who are not morning people, I've known a few. That gives me hope that I can reform my habitual tardiness. Hopefully in time.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Don't write a long detailed letter on why he's a problem. Just don't. You might not like it, but you're not in the right and you don't have the upper hand.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by AresGoddess View Post
                              My body is set for going to bed late, and it'll take time to break that habit (without sleep aids). I don't know if I'll be able to break this habit in time to not get fired over it.
                              Don't you deal with the daylight saving time shifts in Texas? Does it take you weeks to adjust to the hour difference every spring and fall.

                              As someone who has to really force himself to be on time (both getting to work and leaving on time), I do sympathize with you. On the other hand, I'm sensing that you're making getting up 20 minutes earlier into a much bigger problem that it really has to be.

                              Comment

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