i used elance and it seemed that I want making about 3 bucks an hour. I had unlimited bids and I used to spend hours bidding. They took 10% of each transaction and half the time the people didnt pay that was 2 years ago.....I think they have changed it a bit

JUST LAUNCHED - www.hirethisdesigner.com - check it out

I was reading through some of the information and they claim to have ironed out the payment issue. I was concerned whether we would actually get any work or not. I understand that you probably end up working at sweat shop rates but that beets the free work that I do now for family and friends.

Match in the gas tank, boom boom.

E-LANCE is truly a place to be concerned about if you are serious about this career.

PLEASE read this article at: www.graphicpush.com/articles/wormhole.shtml

I think it will bring the entire industry down even further if companies like this exploit the desperate in our industry, making it harder for everyone to earn a decent living. It is tempting to go this route because it is easier than truly putting yourself out their, selling yourself as a professional. But if you don't give yourself that respect, don't expect your clients to.


www.vikianderson.com
Corporate Communications, Graphics & Design

Post Edited (Vikia) : 4/25/2004 3:01:08 PM GMT

I am wondering why you do FREE work for anyone.

If you expect to get paid, treat all clients (even family) the same.
When they do a job, I am sure they expect to get paid.

The problem is that culturally, our profession is confused with hobbyist.
But as a true professional, treat yourself as a professional when it comes to your work.

If you GIVE it away, you are not treating yourself as a professional.
Agencies rarely do ProBono.
Your skills have a value - never GIVE it away.

If you want to GIVE...do it as a hobbyist.


www.vikianderson.com
Corporate Communications, Graphics & Design

I couldn't have said it better myself Vikia.

Plain and simple these people have you do work for pennies as Perm said. Unfortunately most people want the benefits of hard work without the hard work.

This weekend I wend out and spoke to about 20 different companies. Out of all of them I got one job that I'm creating a bid on. The client will probably be my biggest and I'm darn proud of it.

It took me almost four years to start building relationships with clients. But now that I’ve built the confidence I will never be the same. There is a saying that goes “anything valuable is not easily obtained”.

Don’t do free work man. Don’t go to Elance. Pick up the phone book and make phone calls build character, confidence and do your best.

This isn’t meant for everyone but it’s ultimately up to you to decide not me.


'Adventure, Excitement, A Jedi craves not these things.'
'Anger...fear...aggression. The dark side of the Force are they.'

Ok Vikia:
A. I am not going to charge my parents and friends to do work, that would make me about the biggest jerk in the world. My mom doesn't charge me $15.00 a plate for thanksgiving dinner and my mechanic friend doesn't send me an invoice for figuring out what that rattling sound is under my hood.

B. Thank you for the advice on E-Lance, I was skeptical but there are some supposed 'companies' on there posting rather large profits which makes it a tempting service, also the ability to be able to work from home in your spare time while going to school or hunting for a stable job also makes the service a tempting alternative. I agree that services like this drive down the wage for professionals here, but could that mean that rates are too high? I'm not an economics major, and I don't want to devaluize the industry because it's an industry I hope to succeed in, but doesn't supply and demand state that if you have a product is in excess that its value diminishes? I don't mean to be the devil's advocate but I read No Logo and found myself at complete odd's with some of the author's comments. I'm not talking about the harsh working conditions and long hours of Asian countries, but more can you really fault companies like Walmart and Starbucks for being successful? Should we really be slowing down successful entrepreneurs to let the slower businesses keep up? I got a bit off track but I guess my point is I don't think that those bargain-basement graphic designers in dirt poor countries feel to sorry for us for not making our usual $90 per hour when they are probably more than happy to be living off of the meager amount they charge.

Benjo abd Viki:
In part to your advice and that article I've decided no to go the E-Lance route, I understand that it takes hard work to get a start and starting the slow process of learning to deal with rejection, criticism and disapointment, but that will make the end result of getting a job all the more sweeter, right? It's just tempting to do E-Lance and have some actual material in your portfolio that is in circulation, as opposed to the make-believe collateral dreamt up in class.
Thanks for the Advice.

Match in the gas tank, boom boom.

Good article Vikia.

I probably wouldn't charge my mom either. But try to put this into context.

If the 'job' you are doing has a business perspective for the client you are doing it for, then charge them accordingly. They are going to benefit in their business on your skills. If your mom asks you to do a flyer for her church or charity...then donate your time accordingly. Keep a log of your materials and mileage for your accountant (this is tax deductible) but not your labor.

I have drawn portraits that hang on Mom's wall, but I charged my brother a fee to create a logo for his business. I gave him a W-9 for tax purposes and at the end of the year he sent me a 1099. He respects what I do as a business and vice versa.

I'm just saying that if you don't SEE yourself as a professional, no one else will either. This profession is easily dismissed as a hobby. I like earning a living wage doing this. I comport myself as a professional and thus treated by family and friends as a professional. This then transcends to the business community. Networking with family and friends is important and can lead to real business. But they have to see you in this light. When they refer your name to business concerns, they will reflect you as a professional.

Good luck in your career,


www.vikianderson.com
Corporate Communications, Graphics & Design

Vikia said...
I am wondering why you do FREE work for anyone.

If you expect to get paid, treat all clients (even family) the same.
When they do a job, I am sure they expect to get paid.

The problem is that culturally, our profession is confused with hobbyist.
But as a true professional, treat yourself as a professional when it comes to your work.

If you GIVE it away, you are not treating yourself as a professional.
Agencies rarely do ProBono.
Your skills have a value - never GIVE it away.

If you want to GIVE...do it as a hobbyist.

Last week my graphic design class went on a "field trip" to a large and very successful design company (they have some national contracts like comcast, hewlett packard and Qwest)in Albuquerque and one of the owners mentioned that they do quite a bit of pro-bono work (like Cystic Fibrosis Foundation, March of Dimes &Muscular Dystrophy Association). I couldn't help but think of some of the GDF conversations about pro-bono workand wonder if maybe you can afford to do some when you getthat big. [/quote]

If it wasn't for the last minute nothing would ever get done.
(When I grow up I want to be just like Keyare! He does excellent work - even when he's trying to not to.)

well of course you can afford to .... heck, even small agencies can afford to. but these are charities not family.

eraser nubbin -- i work from home and don't (don't plan to either) use elance or any other like website. i take my work and profession seriously and because i do, get treated as a professional. a lot of my work comes from customer referrals. i do very minimal work for free, even family. my husband doesn't work for his family for free. he's a computer/it professional and helps out his mom and dad in their respective businessses with computer problems and network consulting. he charges every time. there's a difference between cooking a meal for someone and providing a professional service. heck, my mom cooks for me all the time, but if she did my accounting and bookkeeping, you'd better believe i'd pay her for time and effort.