Lost the job

PrintDriver · 03-14-2012, 11:54 PM

You stopped a meeting in progress to eat? Unless you have a medical reason, you might have waited until the conclusion of business. Design is a Service Industry. At times, it's all about the client, not you.

**garricks** · 03-14-2012, 11:56 PM

Originally posted by DesignBroJordan View Post

After some time it came time to fill my belly with tasty morsels of food, so I told him I would be back in like 45 mins, it was actually closer to 30

How much time was "some time?" Do you have a medical condition that requires that you eat at specific times?

I'm kinda struggling to understand why you left the client sitting there for half an hour while you ate. I would never walk out in the middle of a pitch unless I was physically ill.

I'm guessing (admittedly without knowing the whole story) that the client felt you were unprofessional.

EDIT: Ninja PrintDriver is thinking along the same lines, I see.

**Buda** · 03-15-2012, 12:48 AM

I had a look at your portfolio and while there isn't much on there, I don't it looks grunge at all.

I don't think it is a good idea to case study something you like and update it to something you like even more. Why don't you invest your time in improving on your skills and the holes in your portfolio at the same time?

There will always be clients that are tire kickers and you might never know if the client you lost was one of those or it was because you left in the middle of a skype chat. If you'd been talking for less than an hour, you should have wrapped up the chat before going to lunch. But if you had been talking for hours with no hope of wrapping it up, you should have still concluded the meeting because it wasn't getting anywhere.

Bob · 03-15-2012, 01:18 AM

>>So I recently was trying to land a client job doing an application, I don't have one of those in my portfolio yet so I really wanted it.<<

I'm confused. Don't have any... what? Applications? A cliented-job? What do you mean by 'doing an application'? Sorry... I just don't follow this. Or did you mean 'during'?

**Buda** · 03-15-2012, 01:20 AM

I'm guess it was an "app" like one of those fun do-dackies that you download for your piece of awesome phone because you have more time and money than you know what to do with

Bob · 03-15-2012, 01:38 AM

Ah! Of course. 'Doing an application' = creating a mobile app. Gotcha. More for the iGen crowd then. (Me, I'm more of the i-don't-get-it-Crowd)

Is app work design a prime must-have now for portfolios? I'm thankfully ignorant of portfolio stuff. My brother is an app maker. Has been for a few years. He's been a programmer for maybe 25. The thing I gleaned from my conversations with him in that area is that like so much 'hot and new' stuff -- the field is rife with designer and programmer abusers. "This will make you famous!" Right.

Right?

**Buda** · 03-15-2012, 03:15 AM

I'm guessing that with the kids these days, you're not a designer or web developer until you've done an app.

**PanToshi** · 03-15-2012, 03:54 AM

Originally posted by DesignBroJordan View Post

when I came back I see that he said "What is this?" and then "Forget it" and have not been able to get a hold of him since.

Originally posted by DesignBroJordan View Post

So apparently I lost the job because I had to eat? Not sure

You're not sure? I think it is pretty clear from his response.

Originally posted by DesignBroJordan View Post

but I want to take this experience and reflect, so I did and I found something I want to try to fix.

You might want to start by understanding what message you gave a potential client by leaving in the middle of a client pitch meeting— a meeting for a project/job you say you really wanted.

But, not enough to let your tummy rumble for a few more minutes.

If you are going to put yourself forward as a business, you need to behave like a business person. Or better yet, get some experience first. Spend some time working at a print shop, a sign shop, or the local copy shop. Get in a job where there are people to learn from and interact with.

DesignBroJordan · 03-15-2012, 04:13 AM

the thing is things weren't really going anywhere, that's why I felt it was a good time to step out. I guess I didn't see it as a meeting, I don't know, I"m still new guys, all my clients are really different in how they consider a job to be "won" in terms.

So what would the process of wrapping up a meeting be then, how should I have handled it? I don't want to hear any more of what I shouldn't have done, I get it, screwed up, thanks for pointing that out, but I want to know for future reference what could I have done to allow for me to step out

**PanToshi** · 03-15-2012, 04:52 AM

From your "About Me" page:

...I currently attend a local technical college leaning all that I can about graphic design and all the likes.

Here I have a lot of things I've done in school but also a lot of cool real world projects as well. I'm always looking to get new and amazing things in my porfolio!

When I'm not working in photoshop or drawing up concepts I'm more than likely playing some good old fashioned video games or working out (when I can haha!).

One of my favorite things about web developement is meeting new people and creating new and lasting partnerships and ultimately new and lasting friendships. When I take your business I'm not just looking for a quick buck, I want to make a new partner in business and in anything else really! Alright well enough mushy gushy stuff lets get on to the real reason why you're here!

1. TYPOS. SPELLING. GRAMMAR. PUNCTUATION.
2. What is: all the likes. The phrase you are mangling is: xyz and the like.
3. You say you have a lot of things "here" in your portfolio. But there are very few pieces.
4. Clients don't care what you want to put in your portfolio.
5. Clients don't care if you work out, play video games or work in photoshop.
6. The last paragraph about wanting to make friends and being partners in matters other than business comes across as needy and a little crazy IMO.

Your website comes across more like a personal site than a professional one. The language in the About Me page as well as that in the project descriptions is jokey, casual and non-professional, it's more like a myspace-like area where progress of your school work is shared with your friends. For example, a professional portfolio would not talk about the errors made on a project, or highlight flaws in their process.

The spelling and grammar throughout is atrocious and a number of sloppy typos as well. The result? It gives the impression that you do sloppy work.

The work:
You need more pieces, but you also need to hone the pieces you have. None of them would suffer from a fair amount of polish.

The site:
Your slideshow doesn't work on my browser. Big Black Box every time. Firefox 10.0.2.

I may be blunt, but I don't think I've been harsh. Pay Attention to Detail. Pay a lot of attention to every single tiny detail. If you can't do that putting together your own portfolio, what is a potential employer or client to think?

**PanToshi** · 03-15-2012, 05:03 AM

Originally posted by DesignBroJordan View Post

the thing is things weren't really going anywhere, that's why I felt it was a good time to step out. I guess I didn't see it as a meeting, I don't know, I"m still new guys, all my clients are really different in how they consider a job to be "won" in terms.

So what would the process of wrapping up a meeting be then, how should I have handled it? I don't want to hear any more of what I shouldn't have done, I get it, screwed up, thanks for pointing that out, but I want to know for future reference what could I have done to allow for me to step out

Without my knowing where your conversation left off, maybe you could have wrapped it up by saying something like: Thank you for taking time out of your busy schedule to review my portfolio and discuss your xyz project with me.

And then waiting until he replied.

**Buda** · 03-15-2012, 08:20 AM

As a professional, you need to be directing the meeting. You get better with experience. Sure, some clients know exactly what information to give you and can lead the meeting, but you can't assume that the client can hold your hand through it.

This is one of the kinds of scenarios of why inexperienced people shouldn't be freelancing. If you'd worked in the business before, you would know how to direct a meeting with a client. You'd know how to get what you need from them, how to confirm the information and how to wrap it up and end the meeting. Ending a meeting that isn't going anywhere is a good idea. It's hard to say if you ended the meeting or left your client hanging.

PrintDriver · 03-15-2012, 11:09 AM

If you get to a point where you are not getting anywhere, one way to sign off is to say something like, "so far I have this <detail>, <detail>, <detail, etc. and I think that's enough information for this first meeting for me to draw up a cost proposal, yada yada yada." If the list you cite ISN'T enough for you to do the proposal, YOU haven't asked the right questions.

Chatty websites are a distraction. No one cares or has time to read all that. Find some websites of upper level designers and studios to study and you will not find all that drivel in there. Just business and accomplishments. And always have references that can be contacted. You don't want to list those on your website, but we wouldn't hire a designer without references.

kemingMatters · 03-15-2012, 01:00 PM

Okay so you get where you went wrong. When dealing with a client/potential client always give them 100% of your attention, with the exception of taking notes on what you are discussing, they should be the only thing you are focussing on until your meeting/phone call is over. This makes them feel important and shows them that you want their business.

As others have mentioned it's not a wise idea to start freelancing straight out of school. Most businesses fail in the first year and if you are entirely confident in what you are doing you are stacking the odds against you. Now the odd project here and there isn't going to hurt, but if your not 100% confident in doing so I'd suggest not.

Lost the job

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