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  • Designing with a "VOID" screen that will show when copied

    I have a client who wants some gift certificates designed and wants there logo and/or the words VOID to be very faint but show up when copied like if you try to copy a check.

    Is there some type of science to this?

    My thinking and how I have it right now is the background is an 8% screen of PMS 300, the logo thing is over that at 12%. You can faintly make out the visual difference on a hard copy proof, and when I copy it, you do see these things popping out which is what they want, but not as drastic as I was hoping for like when you copy a check.

    So is it perhaps something to do with the physical dot pattern itself? And if so how should I best design something like this? I had read something that said that the background and VOID part should be the same percent but the VOID would be a tighter lpi, which the copier should pick up on. Does that sound like it might be the way to go?

    I am a designer at a commercial printer so all my tools are right here, the RIP, the press etc.

    I'm just using Indesign, does Photoshop need to be used as well to do something to this logo/Void part?

    If anyone has ever had to design something similar, please share any info you might have that would help. Thanks

  • #2
    Welcome HPIvt! We ask all new members to have a read through these important threads with our rules and FAQs.

    You're on the right track. The 'void if copied' security pattern is in the line screen, not the color tints. I've never done this myself, so I've never had to set up a file for it.
    ___________
    Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me.

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    • #3
      Thanks

      that's kind of what I was hoping to hear, after all it would make sense. This would be an uncoated job that would go to plate at 175 lpi / 2540dpi

      Do you think that I would want to keep both the tints for the background and VOID part the same screen, lets say 8% of PMS 300, so that to the eye it appears as just a blue background, but send the VOID plate at a higher lpi which would be 200 lpi / 3048 dpi. I'm also wondering if changing the angle of the dot would help at all.

      Thanks for your input!

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      • #4
        The lady that was here before me tried for about a week to get something like this to work and couldn't produce anything sellable. We just buy the Kant Kopy paper for stuff that needs this now. I think it's kinda spendy though
        I feel like a city kid who has stumbled into a town

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        • #5
          Do they HAVE to be printed voids? For similar projects we've used serial numbers or printing with inks that don't copy, like metallics or fluorescents.

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          • #6
            fluorescents could be used, so if the fluorescent ink does not copy, I assume I would want most of the job content to be in the fluorescents and the VOID part normal ink so that when copied you'd see the VOID?

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            • #7
              Not exactly. If any part of the certificate has the special inks on it, it's not going to copy properly. You won't need it to say void if it's obviously a duplicate. Foil stamps, embossing, specialty papers, etc are other ways to make it more foolproof.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by VDM View Post
                Do they HAVE to be printed voids? For similar projects we've used serial numbers or printing with inks that don't copy, like metallics or fluorescents.
                They are called Pantagraphs and are available at most commercial printers that have printed for banks and such.

                You can buy a digital version, but if it is a single use thing, it is expensive.
                "You're only given one little spark of madness. You musn't lose it" - Robin Williams

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                • #9
                  I've never heard of doing this before. Anyone have a site to look into these things? I tried a google search, but only came up with quilting answer using the pantagraph name.
                  "Go ahead, make your logos in PS. We charge extra money to redraw your logo into vector art so it can be printed on promotional product. Cha CHING! " - CCericola

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by darkwolf29a View Post
                    I've never heard of doing this before. Anyone have a site to look into these things? I tried a google search, but only came up with quilting answer using the pantagraph name.

                    try this link:
                    http://www.adlertech.com/Sentinel.htm
                    "You're only given one little spark of madness. You musn't lose it" - Robin Williams

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                    • #11
                      Her is another:
                      http://www.amgraf.com/pages/voidmaker.html

                      also, sorry about the spelling error.
                      Pantograph not Pantagraph
                      "You're only given one little spark of madness. You musn't lose it" - Robin Williams

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                      • #12
                        While Pantographs would definitely be secure, I'm just talking about printing any part of the certificate with an unusual ink. Logo, title, border, whatever. Fluorescents just copy like normal colors, and silver ink would copy as grey.

                        That's not as clear as having voids across your paper, it's secure enough to stop the vast majority.

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                        • #13
                          Who stands to be duped? Someone on the receiving end of a forgery with gray instead of silver or plain orange instead of fluorescent orange may not know that it's supposed to be a different color or finish. The security feature the OP talks about will make a fake obvious to anyone looking at it (as long as they're smart enough to know that if it says VOID all over it that it's not a legitimate piece).

                          Not sure what the OP's needs are for this project.
                          ___________
                          Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me.

                          blog/portfolio

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            We do the opposite.

                            Instead of marking a copy with void, we mark a legitmate voucher/certificate with fancy printing techniques. We have a colour copier that prints clear varnish. No minimum run.

                            I design a pattern - much like the line patterns you get on currency and overlay the whole certificate with the pattern. This pattern cannot be copied. Anything without this pattern is void.

                            Even if someone else has the same copier, they cannot make a copy that from a printed sample. The clear varnish pattern as the pattern can only be printed via a properly layered master file.
                            It is more fun to talk with someone who doesn't use long, difficult words but rather short, easy words like "What about lunch?" Winnie the Pooh

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Buda View Post
                              We do the opposite.

                              Instead of marking a copy with void, we mark a legitmate voucher/certificate with fancy printing techniques. We have a colour copier that prints clear varnish. No minimum run.

                              I design a pattern - much like the line patterns you get on currency and overlay the whole certificate with the pattern. This pattern cannot be copied. Anything without this pattern is void.

                              Even if someone else has the same copier, they cannot make a copy that from a printed sample. The clear varnish pattern as the pattern can only be printed via a properly layered master file.

                              Do you put some kind of disclaimer on it letting people know that there is supposed to be a varnished pattern on it? On our safety RX forms there is a mark on the back that is only viewable from an angle and will not show up on copies. We put a thing on the front letting people know that if they can't see the mark it is not the original
                              I feel like a city kid who has stumbled into a town

                              Comment

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