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  • salsa
    Reply to Design Quotes
    salsa
    They want you to do a mock quote and didn't tell you how to do it? That's strange that they would even do this because there are a lot of steps in the real world of business that you have to go through...
    Today, 02:33 AM
  • Buda
    Reply to New Logo for a Glass Bottle Cutting Device
    Buda
    I don't see any progression. It's the same concept.

    Try and work on some more interesting concepts.

    Things to think about:
    Who is the target market?
    What is the...
    Today, 01:51 AM
  • Buda
    Reply to Critique for my logos
    Buda
    What is your background? Are you a student or a designer?

    These don't look like real logos to me because they can't be used in the real world. It looks like you have thought up concepts but...
    Today, 01:47 AM
  • Buda
    Reply to (Possibly) doing a commission for the first time, need intro
    Buda
    Just curious if you are thinking of using copyright and trademarked comic book and movie characters in your design?
    Today, 01:44 AM
  • Buda
    Reply to Design Quotes
    Buda
    Hi c_fowler336 and welcome to GDF.

    We ask every new member to read the threads posted HERE, particularly this thread to get acquainted with how things work on GDF. They will explain...
    Today, 01:37 AM
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  • Hmm, let's see. In PrintDriver's beautiful graphic design world:

    - probably 2/3 of the schools currently offering programs would be shut down as being substandard.

    - a Graphic Design course of study would be a four year BA degree. No workshops, no certificate courses, no associates degrees.

    - Portfolio reviews showing a modicum of skill would be required to get in to a design program.

    - The professors teaching the upper level portfolio classes and transitional classes would be required to have worked in the industry for 10 years before being certified to teach. They should still be practicing freelancers or consultants while teaching.

    - A specified course of study would be required. Designers would be required to have a Major area of study and only one minor.

    - A late project is a zero for the project. Two late projects means termination from the program.

    - A passing grade is a C.

    - Hands on production (print, web, multimedia) would be required. The school would have an internal graphic design department where students do practical work in the creation of the business graphics of the college, from web to multimedia to print, under the mentorship of a professional art director. The college would have to partner with a couple of different printers to provide designers on the print design track with production time. This gives the college a vested interest in teaching their students correctly.

    - A passing proficiency in hand drawing/sketching would be required.

    - Courses in arts law and business practices would be required.

    - Testing in production knowledge specific to the student's career track would be required. Quantifiable facts.

    - a true dissertation on a current issue in the chosen career track would be written. The model would be similar to a masters thesis and would start in the first semester of the senior year and finish with a presentation at the end of the second semester.

    - Computers would not be used for design at least until the 2nd year.

    - A two year journeymanship would be required upon graduating from college as a designer. The college would be responsible for providing some support in the garnering of said journeymanships.

    - A license to freelance would not be granted to anyone with less than 5 years industry experience. Notice I'm not saying all graphic designers have to be licensed. Only those going freelance. All designers would need the degree and the journeymanship certificate.

    - Crowdsourcing would not be able to call their product graphic design unless the freelancers working for them have said license. <>

    - "Self-taught" would no longer be a viable way of getting into the industry. Street cred does not equal credentials. Grandfathering would be available for those who have been in the business over 5 years.
    ---
    Sounding arbitrary yet? You want someone to set the rules? Is that bar too high? Does it make some people angry to read that?

    Think about it and tell me the design industry doesn't deserve what it's gotten these past 10+ years.

    I don't particularly care if someone takes that list and runs with it. Good luck, Jim. This tape will self-destruct in 10 seconds.
    Last edited by PrintDriver; 05-16-2012, 01:19 AM.

    Comment


    • It's perfect for anyone who's 18 and knows that design is for them. Not so much for anyone coming to it later in life. You're cutting talent off at the knee.

      Comment


      • Originally posted by Roth View Post
        It's perfect for anyone who's 18 and knows that design is for them. Not so much for anyone coming to it later in life. You're cutting talent off at the knee.
        I disagree. People go back to Uni "later in life" to pursue 2nd careers in all kinds of fields, have done so for eons. They manage to fulfill the necessary requirements for _(fill-in-the-blank)_ degree; why would it be prohibitive for a career in GD?

        University isn't restricted to 18-22 year olds in your neck of the woods, is it?
        Sketching not only helps you work out good ideas, it helps you get past the bad ones.

        Comment


        • PD's suggestion goes far beyond uni. And when second careers are involved you're more likely to have mortgages and kids. You can't necessarily flap around for 9 yrs at a minimum just to go freelance. And for what amounts to making things look nice (and even then it's not a given) that seems overly restrictive. We're not saving lives here, it's not medicine. We're effectively moving things around on a bit of paper.

          PD's way wouldn't do anything. You'd jut have even more people outside the industry. Crowdsourcing sited would just use another term for GD.

          Comment


          • Roth, I know you aren't one of those crying about crowdsourcing.
            But your answers are exactly why there is no hope for GD as a professional Profession.
            Restrict entry, or get what you get. I'm not saying my 'way' would do anything at all. I'm just a printer and couldn't care less what you guys do. While I might complain a bit about people not knowing print production, my job as pre-flight tech is somewhat secure as I don't see anything changing, even in the very far future.

            And I did put the smiley on the crowdsource line just for the reason you stated.

            Comment


            • PD, I'm somewhat surprised at how many points on your 'utopic' vision of design education actually existed in my training (including missed deadline expulsion, btw). The biggest difference that I can see over the years is that I did NOT train on a computer -- at all. The technology has really fed into that recognized psychological distortion common to all skilled trades: as soon as someone starting out develops even a slightly higher than the mean level of skill in something -- there's this rush of confidence that distorts their assessment of their skills and abilities against reality. The digital age not only amplifies this distortion, it thrives on using it to sell the 'dream' that "you too can be a professional artist -- with just a little software training, and a lot of software purchases..."

              Last night at chorus practice, a young guy (18) that sings with us asked me if I could help him with something he was working on for school with Photoshop. His words, "I really know a LOT about Photoshop, but I figured you might know a little more than I do, so I thought I should ask you about this one."

              I guess I should have felt a little more flattered than I probably appeared.

              Comment


              • Originally posted by Bob View Post
                Last night at chorus practice, a young guy (18) that sings with us asked me if I could help him with something he was working on for school with Photoshop. His words, "I really know a LOT about Photoshop, but I figured you might know a little more than I do, so I thought I should ask you about this one."

                I guess I should have felt a little more flattered than I probably appeared.
                This sort of reminds me of the marketing guy I work with. He asked me how I was with PS and I said that I was familiar but not an expert. He said he wasn't an expert either, but that he could "show me the ropes." Then he proceeded to teach me to remove backgrounds with the eraser.

                Everyone is a designer. Even I don't claim to be a designer...not yet anyway. I haven't earned that title.
                Last edited by iambunny; 05-16-2012, 02:02 PM.
                "I want to make beautiful things, even if nobody cares."--Saul Bass

                Comment


                • Bob, some of them were in place during both of my career college tours. Others are things I wish had happened. While I whipped that list up in about 20 minutes, it had some thought behind it that went beyond that 20 minutes...

                  I went back to school for a Bachelor in Arts when I was in my 30s. When it comes to schooling anyone can do just about anything if they really want it.

                  Comment


                  • I think the problem stems more from designers not taking the time to educate clients/clients not caring. The reason hacks are more prevalent in the design world is because a lot of people don't see past the visual aspect of it. For example, Joe Nobody decided to paint houses, if he isn't any good at it he won't be painting houses for long because it's obvious that he's no good. In logo design, which seems to be the desired facet for hobbyists and where a lot of the technical aspects of design are important, a hobbyist can create something that looks good and appears functional to the client, it isn't obvious to the layman that it is actually constructed quite poorly and often when it does become an issue the additional cost of correcting these issues are built in the quote and/or not explained to the client in a manner they understand (or the client doesn't care). Same goes for layouts, anyone can make something pretty (this pleases the client), but it doesn't mean it's going to work.

                    Let's not forget ego, if a client has had a lot of input on a bad design, they probably aren't going to see it as the cog that is preventing them from generating more profit/getting their message out there, and so the hobbyist can continue churning this stuff out because they know how to make the client "happy". Unfortunately client "happiness" doesn't always board the "what is good for their business" train at the same stop.
                    Design is not decoration.

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by printdriver View Post
                      bob, some of them were in place during both of my career college tours. Others are things i wish had happened. While i whipped that list up in about 20 minutes, it had some thought behind it that went beyond that 20 minutes...

                      I went back to school for a bachelor in arts when i was in my 30s. When it comes to schooling anyone can do just about anything if they really want it.
                      +1
                      Sketching not only helps you work out good ideas, it helps you get past the bad ones.

                      Comment


                      • Kem, for some reason your post reminded me of the TV show Holmes on Homes.
                        The stuff he uncovers when demolishing a house for repair was done, and covered up, by 'professionals' that he now has to fix...

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by printdriver View Post
                          bob, some of them were in place during both of my career college tours. Others are things i wish had happened. While i whipped that list up in about 20 minutes, it had some thought behind it that went beyond that 20 minutes...

                          I went back to school for a bachelor in arts when i was in my 30s. When it comes to schooling anyone can do just about anything if they really want it.

                          + 2
                          "After all is said and done, more is said than done."
                          Aesop

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by PrintDriver View Post
                            Kem, for some reason your post reminded me of the TV show Holmes on Homes.
                            The stuff he uncovers when demolishing a house for repair was done, and covered up, by 'professionals' that he now has to fix...
                            This is more derailing but...

                            Boyfriend and I were just talking about stuff like this. It seems like no one, in any industry, can do a good job anymore. Our maintanence guy for our rental came out to clean the gutters (we would do it ourselves, but it's against our lease since it's a liability for us to get up there I guess) after we complained that it looked like they hadn't been done in 3 years. He came out to do it, but just did the ones in the front since the overflowing front gutter was what we "specifically complained about." Even the cashiers at the grocery store can't pack bags well anymore. Just about everytime we go shopping, we get someone throwing the glass jars and putting raw meat in with our shampoo (really).

                            It's just sad. I can't remember the last time I saw someone do a really, really good job.
                            "I want to make beautiful things, even if nobody cares."--Saul Bass

                            Comment


                            • ^ You should visit a farm that uses immigrant labourers. Poor people working on quota-incentives work exceptionally hard and well.

                              Or what about the people that build most of all the things we buy? Have you ever seen some of the videos of the Chinese in Apple assembly plants and such? It'll blow your mind how skilled and efficient workers really CAN be.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by PrintDriver View Post
                                Kem, for some reason your post reminded me of the TV show Holmes on Homes.
                                The stuff he uncovers when demolishing a house for repair was done, and covered up, by 'professionals' that he now has to fix...
                                Funny you mentioned that, just after I wrote that, I was thinking we need a Mike Holmes for design, but then again maybe not, it seems like everyone in the trades hates that guy (even the ones that do good work).

                                Originally posted by iambunny View Post
                                This is more derailing but...

                                Boyfriend and I were just talking about stuff like this. It seems like no one, in any industry, can do a good job anymore. Our maintanence guy for our rental came out to clean the gutters (we would do it ourselves, but it's against our lease since it's a liability for us to get up there I guess) after we complained that it looked like they hadn't been done in 3 years. He came out to do it, but just did the ones in the front since the overflowing front gutter was what we "specifically complained about." Even the cashiers at the grocery store can't pack bags well anymore. Just about everytime we go shopping, we get someone throwing the glass jars and putting raw meat in with our shampoo (really).

                                It's just sad. I can't remember the last time I saw someone do a really, really good job.
                                Wait you still have people pack your grocery bags? lux-ur-y... We have to race to pack are groceries so as to not hold up the line in most stores. Some stores even have dual conveyor belts so it's like head-to-head grocery bagging. I remember when bagging groceries was a job in itself, they even used to walk them out to your car for you...
                                Design is not decoration.

                                Comment

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