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  • #16
    Originally posted by hank_scorpio View Post
    Scan at the highest resolution possible. I wouldn't consider 600 ppi high enough resoultion for line art.

    I'd be at a minimum of 1200 ppi just to get it to look as it does at normal size.


    The best way to enlarge the size is at the scanning stage.

    If you want to go from 8.5 inches to 30 inches

    Then scan at 350% and I'd say AT LEAST 1200 ppi. But I'd go for 2400 ppi so I'd have more room to play.


    If it's ok at that size - then you can start to bring down the resolution to get a smaller file size.

    I hate to disagree with an arachnid (especially one with military powers) but....

    The problem with that advice is that many people presume 'highest scanner resolution" to equal highest optical resolution. Which just isn't true. Our mutually respectable trade expert David Blatner suggests a different line scanning method (which I described upthread) in his 'Real World Photoshop' book. It is contrary to what the theory describes, but scanning in highest optical grey, and THEN upsampling 300-400% followed by USB sharpening works way better for capturing lineart quality and detail. In fact, it allows you to get great high rez line scanning results even from a lowly 300 ppi optical scanner.

    I think the other real question here is the outputting specs. As PD says, the Giclee designation is very vague these days. If we're talking about a high-rez stochastic dot output, and the line is solid black -- it might be better to go the composite route -- very high rez (1200 dpi say) bw overtop of a 300 dpi colour. But there's a lot of 'ifs' in that call.

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    • #17
      Originally posted by Bob View Post
      Our mutually respectable trade expert David Blatner suggests a different line scanning method (which I described upthread) in his 'Real World Photoshop' book. It is contrary to what the theory describes, but scanning in highest optical grey, and THEN upsampling 300-400% followed by USB sharpening works way better for capturing lineart quality and detail. In fact, it allows you to get great high rez line scanning results even from a lowly 300 ppi optical scanner.
      I happened to have the opportunity to use this method shortly after the last time you posted it Bob, it worked beautifully. Thanks again for posting.
      This post is brought to you by the letter E and the number 9. Those are the buttons I push to get a Twix out of the candy machine.
      "I put my heart and my soul into my work, and have lost my mind in the process."

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      • #18
        Originally posted by Bob View Post
        I hate to disagree with an arachnid (especially one with military powers) but....

        The problem with that advice is that many people presume 'highest scanner resolution" to equal highest optical resolution. Which just isn't true. Our mutually respectable trade expert David Blatner suggests a different line scanning method (which I described upthread) in his 'Real World Photoshop' book. It is contrary to what the theory describes, but scanning in highest optical grey, and THEN upsampling 300-400% followed by USB sharpening works way better for capturing lineart quality and detail. In fact, it allows you to get great high rez line scanning results even from a lowly 300 ppi optical scanner.

        I think the other real question here is the outputting specs. As PD says, the Giclee designation is very vague these days. If we're talking about a high-rez stochastic dot output, and the line is solid black -- it might be better to go the composite route -- very high rez (1200 dpi say) bw overtop of a 300 dpi colour. But there's a lot of 'ifs' in that call.

        I've only ever worked with industrial drum scanners. I don't think I've ever used a flatbed scanner for scanning line art.

        Results of a desktop scanner are not really something I'm accustomed to.


        I've always scanned the image to the size and resolution that I intend to use. It would be a mortal sin for me to alter the resolution, rotation, or even the colour mode after I've scanned an image.


        If the Blatner has a better way of Scanning line art then great. I've never done it that way. But if it gets good results, then that's all that matters.

        "May your hats fly as high as your dreams"Michael Scott

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        • #19
          Just read the chapter in Real World Photoshop on scanning. Bascially the same idea, except I skipped some things.

          What I was saying was to scan at a the scanners highest resolution, and at the target size.

          The other way described in the book is to scan it twice the size you need and scale it to 50% to double the resolution.

          Which is basically the same as scanning at your target size and the same ppi.


          The bit on the scanning in grayscale and using the 8 bit information is very clever. I've worked with some people who scanned for a living, and I've never seen that trick before.

          It's clever.


          But he does note on page 680 - "Note that if your scanning software can interpoplate up to this same resolution, you can us that as you scan and save yourself a step".


          Pages 678 - 681, I've scanned like that the way it's described for years.

          "May your hats fly as high as your dreams"Michael Scott

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          • #20
            The Epson dual lens Perfection has an optical resolution of 4800dpi. Even a consumer style Canon can have an optical resolution of 2400.
            The old industrial scanners (Creo, Lanovia, etc) all seem to have bit the dust. Scanning is becoming a thing of the past believe it or not. Finding a production quality flatbed scanner with a bed larger than 8.5 x 11 ish is very very difficult.

            Depending on the Cruze scanner, you can get as high as 10000dpi or more depending on the lens system, but some of them are fixed at 300 optical/600 interpolated (the smaller static light table models).

            Broacher I have a map project right now with one ornery little map that isn't liking going from it's original size of 7" up to 106". Hoping your hint will help it out (but not holding breath, everything else has failed...)

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            • #21
              For extremely large resizes of images, like you're doing there PD, I've had trannys made and then scan those on a drum scanner.

              Used to do it quite a bit.

              "May your hats fly as high as your dreams"Michael Scott

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              • #22
                I think we're all making assumptions about the end results that the OP wants and what this line art actually looks like.

                If the OP actually wants the tooth and fibers in the paper to show up, a very high resolution scan would work. If the OP wants sharp (if not somewhat irregular) edges, some of the other techniques listed would work. If the OP's art is more geometric and precision is important, redrawing it in a vector program would be the best option. And all of this is assuming that the OP really does want to reproduce "line art" Ś as in black and white with no continuous tones.
                Last edited by B; 05-14-2012, 04:16 PM. Reason: Fixed stupid typo

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                • #23
                  Originally posted by hank_scorpio View Post
                  For extremely large resizes of images, like you're doing there PD, I've had trannys made and then scan those on a drum scanner.

                  Used to do it quite a bit.
                  Um, yah...that's what I'd normally do too (see earlier post).
                  However, this is a 1908 book repro of a 1600s etched repro of a 1500s hand drawn map. The original map is extant and the 1900s image is line art in a very old book...there's only so much a transie will do. Apparently no museum trans of the original 1600s etching exists. Still have feelers out on that one, but just in case...trying to make do.

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                  • #24
                    Cool. I like old maps.

                    Reminds of a picture I had to source a while ago. To get a copy of it for me they had to shoot the original glass. It turned out really well.

                    "May your hats fly as high as your dreams"Michael Scott

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                    • #25
                      Hank, the only caveat about using scanner driver's interpolated scan data is quality. In my experience-- mind you, it's all on humble, low-mid flatbeds (not the Porsche drum scanners -- I wish!), it's better to work as close as possible to the raw scan data and do all the processing in Pshop where you get much better control.

                      PD, remember -- this is for solid line artwork scans only!

                      The other thing is the greyscale mode. Most low-end scanners use the Green channel for gray, others use a fixed blend of RGB -- some allow you to tweak the mix. Optimal scan results using the grey to bw will vary according to any colourized elements included in the scan (background tints, ink or substrate fades, etc.).

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                      • #26
                        It was a woodcut. Solid line art. But didn't work. It just isn't there to go that far up.
                        I found a third source of one of the original 1600s maps. Fingers crossed they have a chrome.

                        Comment

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