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  • designzombie
    Comment on Graphic Designer salary
    designzombie
    I guess I'm too immersed in the lower end of the profession. I think B2B advertisers budget less of their income towards marketing than B2C. Or maybe they have smaller profit margins.

    I...
    Today, 06:57 PM
  • Sketcher
    Reply to Feedback on my logo
    Sketcher
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    You should be designing your logo in Illustrator. No gloss, no bevels, no...
    Today, 06:04 PM
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    buicongthai
    I would like to introduce
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  • Would you buy a logo from this man?

    Interesting article about Bill Haig, colleague of Saul Bass et al.

    http://imprint.printmag.com/branding...from-this-man/

    Required reading for anyone who thinks they want to be a logo designer.
    This post is brought to you by the letter E and the number 9. Those are the buttons I push to get a Twix out of the candy machine.
    "I put my heart and my soul into my work, and have lost my mind in the process."

  • #2
    Nice find garricks ... interesting read

    Comment


    • #3
      nice early read, thanks G.
      Dribbble Page
      Behance Portfolio
      Linkedin Profile

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      • #4
        To be honest, this is a lot of the reason why I gave up on ever going to school for graphic design or making a full-time living at it. This kind of corporate marketing strategy stuff just makes me throw up in my mouth a little. I suppose it's not all B.S., it's just a way of thinking that I could never bring myself to abide by.
        People will believe anything, which means I will believe anythingI want to start believing in things that have shapeliness and harmony.
        -Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

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        • #5
          Graphic design is mostly about marketing strategy. Which is why I can't understand why newbs and hobbyists think they can even start with logo design. And I can't understand why business owners don't get that it takes a pro, a real, industry practiced pro, and a little more money, to get what is needed in a logo design.

          I especially like the 5 elements of working with Bass Studio. Freelancers take note.
          Also sorta makes you wonder what underling actually came up with the most of Bass Studio's winning concepts.

          Comment


          • #6
            I suppose it depends on how one defines "marketing strategy." It's one thing to recognize that design depends to a degree on appealing to the lizard brain: attention getting, getting something across in a way that doesn't tax the attention span, and so forth. When I think "marketing strategy," I think of the entire field devoted to manipulation of the perceptions and emotions, and to fooling as many of the people as you can as often as possible. Marketing types break down to two general categories in my mind: the run-of-the-mill ones who spend an inordinate amount of time worrying about what most people think, and the uber-successful ones who tell other people what to think.
            People will believe anything, which means I will believe anythingI want to start believing in things that have shapeliness and harmony.
            -Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

            Comment


            • #7
              Graphic design is mostly the visual support and implementation of marketing strategies.

              Sometimes the strategies (usually the best) are risky, based on intuitive experience, but without extensive market testing/analysis. Other times they are extremely well-calculated and almost technical in their psychological structure which itself is based on tons of other factors (not the least being capitalizing on established brand mechanisms).

              To the degree (if any) that the graphic designers are involved with designing the strategy as well as the visual solution often determines the quality of the result.

              One of my favourite parts of that interview was the description of the five things used in client presentation. The heavy reliance on verbal compliance spoke... um, volumes. Designers too often underestimate the incredible power of verbal articulation in the design process. Often because we're not given the op to do so, but also it's something we tend to shy away from.

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              • #8
                I've never heard of this guy before but Saul Bass never needed anyone's help in selling anything.
                http://www.paulsullivanstudio.com

                Comment


                • #9
                  So he did it all on his own, no underlings, no sales reps? I doubt that.
                  This post is brought to you by the letter E and the number 9. Those are the buttons I push to get a Twix out of the candy machine.
                  "I put my heart and my soul into my work, and have lost my mind in the process."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Nobert View Post
                    To be honest, this is a lot of the reason why I gave up on ever going to school for graphic design or making a full-time living at it. This kind of corporate marketing strategy stuff just makes me throw up in my mouth a little. I suppose it's not all B.S., it's just a way of thinking that I could never bring myself to abide by.
                    Interestingly, the ability to combine art and strategic thinking is one of the things that fascinates me about graphic design. Unfortunately, many designers, clients and design schools shortchange the strategy component or neglect it altogether.

                    Students are often preoccupied only with wanting to create cool stuff. Clients tend to view designers as simply carpenters instead of architects. And design schools all too often share either the fine arts mindset of the colleges to which they're affiliated or the production mentality of the trade schools they're part of.

                    Nobert, I'm not sure why you're opposed to corporate marketing strategies. Good ideas, services and products die on the vine if they're not marketed effectively, and the bad ones usually die despite good marketing. It's one of the things that makes capitalism work.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by <b> View Post

                      Nobert, I'm not sure why you're opposed to corporate marketing strategies. Good ideas, services and products die on the vine if they're not marketed effectively, and the bad ones usually die despite good marketing. It's one of the things that makes capitalism work.
                      There, <b>, I have to differ with you. I know that's how it works in theory, but in reality I think more good products have died due to lack of marketing and bad ones been successful because of it than the other way around. (That's confusing wording, and I can't think how to say it better right now). Why do more people go to see blockbuster hits than movies with convincing characters and interesting stories? Because someone in marketing figured out that people really like to see big orange explosions.

                      Again, it may be the term "marketing strategy" that just rankles me, as I associate with the kinds of people who make very good livings by holding meetings and jawboning about how to do the work, while the rest of us have to shut up and do it.

                      I saw my Dad go into a health food store to pitch the idea of them selling his turkeys for Thanksgiving. Last year they oversold the stock from their regular supplier and he helped them fill out the orders. He knew it was a long shot, that they probably didn't want to switch suppliers, but he still went and talked up the meat guy. So, that's a marketing strategy. I'm not opposed to the idea in general principle.

                      It doesn't seem that off the wall to me to be averse to the endeavor as it's usually practiced. Without trying too hard, I could probably go over to the chain jerk thread and come up with half-a-dozen mentions of the "that drooling idiot in our marketing department" stripe.
                      Last edited by Nobert; 06-14-2012, 05:01 PM.
                      People will believe anything, which means I will believe anythingI want to start believing in things that have shapeliness and harmony.
                      -Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Nobert View Post
                        Why do more people go to see blockbuster hits than movies with convincing characters and interesting stories? Because someone in marketing figured out that people really like to see big orange explosions.
                        Adolescents and young adults make up the bulk of the movie-going crowd. Catering to their tastes is a business decision, and if exploding fireballs brings in viewers, that's what the movie studios produce.

                        A corollary to that, however, is the big rise in independently produced movies, like the kind shown up the road from me at Sundance each year. You'll find a whole lot of experimental and traditional films there, along with a noticeable shortage of adrenaline and testosterone.

                        If a market exists, entrepreneurship will fill that niche. Marketing is just a tool to get the word out about something that people might or might not be interested in.

                        As for bad products succeeding because of marketing, I think that depends on your definition of bad. To continue on with the same example, neither you nor I like the exploding fireballs sorts of movies, but does that make them bad? I mean a significant portion of the movie-going public loves them. When very few people like a movie, however, no amount of marketing will save it.

                        Of course we can all recite the extreme examples of, say, Nazis or Communists using marketing to promote their agendas, but on the other hand one of the great scourges of humanity, smallpox, has been totally eradicated from the planet as a result of marketing's role in promoting vaccination programs.

                        Most marketing lies somewhere in between. A new brand of soap. An election campaign. A new restaurant. Good marketing will attract attention, but it's the product itself that will determine success. Good marketing might coax a horse to water, but it can't make it drink. Personally, I'm fascinated by the process of coaxing that horse, but part of a successful strategy is timing it to when the horse is actually thirsty.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          I agree to what both of you have said.

                          "Nonsense. You can't close your eyes to what's happening in the world."

                          "He is right."

                          "He's right and he's right? They can't both be right."

                          "You know, you are also right."


                          Good sabbath to all.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I'm glad that I'm not in this debate.

                            I remember when Saul Bass pitched that AT&T logo. As I remember, CA did a big write up on it. A friend of mine who was an art director in LA at the time told me about the presentation. It was a theatrical production worthy of Hollywood. Now this guy in the pink T shirt is calling it and others "our logos".

                            Who knows maybe he is the real Saul Bass. If he is, he would have been in grade school when Bass was changing the way design was used by Hollywood.
                            http://www.paulsullivanstudio.com

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Nobert View Post
                              When I think "marketing strategy," I think of the entire field devoted to manipulation of the perceptions and emotions, and to fooling as many of the people as you can as often as possible.
                              I think this only applies to the devious marketers who are just scrambling to get a paycheck anyway they can. This means that they'll market even a horrible product by dressing it up with the trend.

                              I have been told by some more experienced marketers/designers that marketing is the quickest way to ensure a bad product/service goes down, and that good quality has to be "baked in" at the start of a marketing campaign. In this day and age, if your product/service sucks, the masses will find out, one way or another no matter how good a marketing campaign is implemented.

                              Comment

                               
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