Wanted to update this saga as it nears completion. I just spoke to one of the designers and she told me that she has never heard of a printer who won't take a Photoshop document and create the spot channels themselves. I told her my printer needs DCS files so she agreed to have a service bureau do the work. Do any of you printers and prepress people agree with the statement that it is a printers job to take a Photoshop document and create the spot channels before creeating the DCS files? I'm starting to get relly confused about who is supposed to do what. An illustrator does what?


"Oooh Benson; you are so mercifully free from the ravages of intelligence."

We do all file prep. We don't use DCS files but we have a lot of different output file requirements and so do my outsource large format vendors that we can't possibly get designers all the details. They should, however, at least provide some sort of documentation (we require some form of hard copy - silly us) that calls out spot colors.

I've had designers send me 'ready for print' pdf files and get cranky when I tell em I need native format! If I print the pdf's as received the designer looks at the proof and says any number of things - except 'approved'. LOL!

PrintDriver is a large format digital print dude. His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

Thanks for answering PrintDriver. I actually talked to my printers before I talked to the design firm and they told me they wouldn't take the PSD file and create the spot channels and that I needed to provide DCS files for them to have plates made. Maybe I need to find a better printer?



Anyone.....anyone......Bueller?


"Oooh Benson; you are so mercifully free from the ravages of intelligence."

Post Edited (greglearn) : 8/13/2004 7:47:17 PM GMT

Don't look for a new printer, you will just be wasting your time! Your printer is absolutely RIGHT! A printers job is to verify file(s), and put them to plate! They typically are not set up to do creative work, that is your job, or your client's!

Someone needs to make a decision here, how the file needs to be separated. The ignorance is your client...sure a PSD file is a raw Photoshop file, but without the file saved into some sort of POSTSCRIPT(EPS/DCS1/DCS2/TIF) based file format, you will not get film/plates. Your printer needs to know how the file is to be placed on a page(scaled or rotated), AND then separated.

As a prepress manager, who started as a graphic designer, I learned that if I produced high quality files, my film (dating myself) cost significantly less, because my RIP times were dramatically less then other designers. Spend a couple days with a technical person at your service bureau or printer. The information is invaluable.

signed, prepress instructor

Hi tapin2! Welcome to the forum!

Sounds like Greglearn is a middle man here. Sorta like me.
I agree, files should be set up correctly for plate or for no-sep type output.
I also agree this is the designer's responsibility.
But many designers do not see it as such and don't realize their ignorance is costing them money. And it should be costing them money. We charge up to $75 per hour for desktop time to 'fix' things for designers.
Best thing Greglearn can do is follow your advice and get chummy with a tech to learn the process. Then charge his clients for his time.

I do find it very surprising though that the printer doesn't take any file and charge for set up...but I know some don't.

BTW...
You're a prepress instructor?

PrintDriver is a large format digital print dude. His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

I'd slap someone who sent me a file that didn't have the seperations already done...and I've slapped a lot of people. I work in a prepress environment, but I also do GD. Makes me angry when I have to take someone's job and sort it out for them.

I swear, Graphic Design should also be called Print Troubleshooting.

"...you should show only one design because that is what your paied to do....your not paied to let the client himself pick out which designs he likes best..."

- Zartan the Wise

I just wanted to thank everyone for replying. Tapin 2 welcome to the forum!!


As printdriver said I am just a middle man in this situation. I could take the PSD files and do the seperations myself, but why should I. The design firm is making a lot of money to produce this work and they want to take no responsability for the finished product? My company would make no money for the work and if somthing goes wrong with the print it would fall on my shoulders. That would be fine if it was my work but it isn't and I think people should take responsability for their own work. The company that this work is done for has also told my company we are not to modify the artwork for their products. So I'm stuck in the middle looking like a jerk, but the packages will be printed correctly. I guess that is really all that matters.


Thanks for listening.


"Oooh Benson; you are so mercifully free from the ravages of intelligence."

I too have similar problems with designers who are not informed on how to create a printable file. I work for a large action sports mag and 1/3 of the files I receive are pretty jacked up. I don't think any file prep is taught in school. I spent 6 hrs on monday creating a spot color overllay from a a psd file for a designer who had no idea. I hear you guys on the money issue. I only end up behind inj my own work and no richer for the effort. You can lead a designer to a page layout program, (not an art program) but can they print a ps?


when i feel down i chant this mantra...

SAVE AS PDF IS NOT THE SAME!

LOL Lineman I'll try to remember that mantra next time. I feel your pain about having to do extra work. I know I'm still learning about prep-ing files for the printer by talking to my printers as much as I can. I just wonder what these people would do if people stopped fixing their crappy files and made them do the work themselves.


Hey I can dream can't I?


A funny end to the story now. Five days ago the design group told me they were going to send the files to a service bureau to have the files set up properly. Today they called me and told me they were going to recreate the problem areas in Illustrator. Now I wonder why they decided to do that, and 5 days later to boot.....? Hmm I wonder


"Oooh Benson; you are so mercifully free from the ravages of intelligence."

LOL.
Yeah, they don't believe YOU, huh. Gotta hear it from their service bureau.

It's an hopelessly endless loop you know. You fix the file. They look good. They get more work. You fix their files. They look good. They get even more work...

Hopeless, I tell you.

PrintDriver is a large format digital print dude. His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

I was just wondering, what is the best way for a designer to learn how to prep their files? I am recently graduated and they did not teach me anything about this in school. I have looked for books, but cannot seem to find any that are very up to date.

In school they always just told us it would be easiest for us to learn that sort of thing on the job, but nobody wants to hire you unless you've got experience.

If I knew I knew what I was doing, I think I'd do better at interviewing, but as it is now I feel like there's a lot I don't even know that I don't know!

Lunabeetlegirl I wish I had some good advice for you, but I learned by having to do prep work for my job. I talked to and still talk to all of the printers that I deal with and get as much information as I can. If you read through the resource thread here there is a lot of information. There are a lot of people here who know a lot more than I do so hopefully they can be of help to you also. Good luck finding a job. It took me more than 2 years after I finished school, but now I think itwas all worth it.


"Oooh Benson; you are so mercifully free from the ravages of intelligence."

Took me 4 years of full time Retail plus a few part time print production internships and freelance designing before landing a full time job. Decided I didn't need to be doing the designing so I work in production.

PrintDriver is a large format digital print dude. His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

I can honestly say that school teachers designers VERY little about getting files ready for print. I will even venture to say they teach NOTHING about it. I went to a top art college but when I graduated...I didn't know ANYTHING about prepping files!! As alot of designers - in the beginning I assumed it wasn't my problem once it left me and went to the printer (this was while I was freelancing in college). I had one professor tell me that its very important for form a good relationship with your printer and I took that to heart and did JUST that when I started out. There are WAY too many designers that think once its outta their hands then its not their fault if the output isn't correct!! It's pretty annoying!

lunabeettlegirl - my suggestion to you is visit a few print shops and see if they will let you get some experience...hell, even if you do it for free a few hours a week it would be a HUGE help for you down the road! See if they will let you watch and/or take part in some of the pre-press action. Who knows...they might let you. I got really interested in prepress when I was working for a local magazine here in town and we were switching presses. I called the press and asked them if I could come down for the first run and watch them and learn how they do things to make sure I am doing everything they need to output the job and they welcomed me, let me print the negatives and everything...even offered me a job down the road but I didnt take it bc it would require me moving to another state.

All I'm sayin is that if you make an effort to talk to your printer(s) tolearn what they need from you, then you won't get the 'UGH..the designer is on the phone and doesn't know what he/she is talking about again' voice on the other end of the phone...HAHA!!!! C'mon...PD, greg...you guys KNOW you feel that way when you get a designer on the phone...LOL!!! The better relationship you have with your printer, the smoother your job will run. Not because the printer likes you but because you have learned what they need from you and they know what you need from them. You will work better together and it makes the job so much smoother! I know! P

Boobie Island or Bust!