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  • #16
    Originally posted by VDM View Post
    I'm pretty sure they know their own machines there. It sounds like you don't know how to explain what you want. All copiers have that white border too. You have to print on paper larger than the finished piece and cut it down. The bleed is there because cutters aren't 100% accurate.

    I believe it was mentioned

    "May your hats fly as high as your dreams"Michael Scott

    Comment


    • #17
      It's early. Brain see things good yes?

      =)
      Seriously, read this.

      Comment


      • #18
        A. Trimmers are NOT exact, and over time, can lose accuracy and need to be adjusted.
        B. ALL printers have a "can't print there zone" usually about .25" from the edge, all around.
        C. Take your work to a print shop and have them print it out. Their printers are no different, but they know to use a larger size stock and trim your bleeds.
        "I love deadlines. I love the 'whooshing' sound they make when they go by." - Doug Adams
        LinkedIn

        Comment


        • #19
          yea gromit, like i said im going to start going to the print shop up the street. at least I would be dealing with people whom at least know what im talking about. I'm only going to go to fedex if its absolutely needed.

          maynard they mentioned doing that. having to print it on larger paper, then trimming off the bleeds to make it the appropriate size. however the assistant manager didn't think of doing that. he was just trying to grasp onto what I was saying. I was half temped to run and get a calendar to show him.

          Comment


          • #20
            Originally posted by Gromit801 View Post
            A. Trimmers are NOT exact, and over time, can lose accuracy and need to be adjusted.
            B. ALL printers have a "can't print there zone" usually about .25" from the edge, all around.
            C. Take your work to a print shop and have them print it out. Their printers are no different, but they know to use a larger size stock and trim your bleeds.
            Being a cutter operator for four straight years, many years ago (not referring to a table top cutter) but large litho cutters, are in fact accurate, very accurate. At least where I come from these cutters have to pass strict safety standards. If the cutter's computer is defective and becomes inaccurate, even then an operator can rule up the sheet and program the cuts. A dull blade can cause issues. In my 35+ years in printing I've never encountered a shop not sharpening its blades with a contractor. However, anything can be inaccurate when personnel have little to no training and know how.
            WYSIWYG

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by Gromit801 View Post
              A. Trimmers are NOT exact, and over time, can lose accuracy and need to be adjusted.
              Our Polar have been in operation since the early 80s and have never needed adjustment.

              Originally posted by Gromit801 View Post
              B. ALL printers have a "can't print there zone" usually about .25" from the edge, all around.
              I have an Epson printer at my house that will print borderless on any size up to 13x19. There are lot of printers on the market now that offer borderless printing.

              Originally posted by Gromit801 View Post
              C. Take your work to a print shop and have them print it out. Their printers are no different, but they know to use a larger size stock and trim your bleeds.
              We can print full bleed on any size up to 12x18 without needing to trim afterwards.
              http://brokenspokedesign.com

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              • #22
                Well Cosmo, since we have had to adjust our trimmer, then it would be true that trimmers are not exact.

                Allow for to be more precise. I'm not talking about inkjet printers, but the digital printers you will find in commercial print and copy shops (like where the OP took his work). Xerox, Konica-Minolta, etc.

                We have an inkjet large format machine that can print 42" on 100 foot rolls. Not a cost effective way to produce a small document.
                "I love deadlines. I love the 'whooshing' sound they make when they go by." - Doug Adams
                LinkedIn

                Comment


                • #23
                  Originally posted by jimking View Post
                  Being a cutter operator for four straight years, many years ago (not referring to a table top cutter) but large litho cutters, are in fact accurate, very accurate. At least where I come from these cutters have to pass strict safety standards. If the cutter's computer is defective and becomes inaccurate, even then an operator can rule up the sheet and program the cuts. A dull blade can cause issues. In my 35+ years in printing I've never encountered a shop not sharpening its blades with a contractor. However, anything can be inaccurate when personnel have little to no training and know how.
                  Jim, worm drives that usually control the back plate will wear over the years, and can be off a millimeter or two. One tries to catch that kind of thing, but it might not go noticed right away. You should never rely on it 100%.
                  "I love deadlines. I love the 'whooshing' sound they make when they go by." - Doug Adams
                  LinkedIn

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    trimmers are certainly never exact; that is why there is sometimes need (especially in saddle stitch to account for creep).

                    The reality is that nothing in the world is perfect... period.
                    So bleed is needed for all the reasons indicated.
                    I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not. ~ Kurt Cobain

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by Gromit801 View Post
                      Well Cosmo, since we have had to adjust our trimmer, then it would be true that trimmers are not exact.

                      Allow for to be more precise. I'm not talking about inkjet printers, but the digital printers you will find in commercial print and copy shops (like where the OP took his work). Xerox, Konica-Minolta, etc.

                      We have an inkjet large format machine that can print 42" on 100 foot rolls. Not a cost effective way to produce a small document.
                      Our Konica CPP650 will print full bleed on anything up to 12x18.

                      We don't usually do it that way because we like to have the crop and registration marks to line up the front and back images.
                      Last edited by Cosmo; 03-20-2012, 07:18 PM.
                      http://brokenspokedesign.com

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Gromit801 View Post
                        Jim, worm drives that usually control the back plate will wear over the years, and can be off a millimeter or two. One tries to catch that kind of thing, but it might not go noticed right away. You should never rely on it 100%.
                        True, and back gauges can get out of square also. My point is a brand new cutter will cut perfect, however a brand new 6 color 40" press will not lay an image on the exact same X&Y of every sheet of paper, and that paper straight out of the box or off the pallet is not all the same size. Now you could rectify the paper issue by...............pre-trimming the stock before press.
                        WYSIWYG

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Audentia View Post
                          trimmers are certainly never exact; that is why there is sometimes need (especially in saddle stitch to account for creep).

                          The reality is that nothing in the world is perfect... period.
                          So bleed is needed for all the reasons indicated.
                          Creep is caused by paper thickness and the fact that sheets are inserted into each other causing the outer sheets to protrude farther out from the book's lip than the inner pages. Cutter has nothing to do with it. The only way around that is to pre-trim each page then insert. But what effect would that have? It'll look like the face trim never took place, besides it being labor intensive. Creep is adjusted by the pre-press tech before printing. However, this is becoming a dying trade made worse by clients and printers who see no value in skilled labor.
                          Last edited by jimking; 03-20-2012, 07:52 PM.
                          WYSIWYG

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Infinity, did your work have trim marks on it? If your artwork includes bleed, it must have trim marks on it if you want your work trimmed. Stating the final size isn't enough. I'm not familiar with FedEx, but the guillotinist can't just assume your final size is a standard size or even in the centre of the art area.

                            Printing is hardly ever printed 1up (1 piece per sheet), therefore we need to know where your artwork starts and finishes so we can cut it away from both the bleed and other pieces (if gang run)

                            Most days, I don't bother explaining creep to clients. I hate working out creep, but it's easier I do it than explaining it.
                            It is more fun to talk with someone who doesn't use long, difficult words but rather short, easy words like "What about lunch?" Winnie the Pooh

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by Buda View Post
                              Infinity, did your work have trim marks on it? If your artwork includes bleed, it must have trim marks on it if you want your work trimmed. Stating the final size isn't enough. I'm not familiar with FedEx, but the guillotinist can't just assume your final size is a standard size or even in the centre of the art area.

                              Printing is hardly ever printed 1up (1 piece per sheet), therefore we need to know where your artwork starts and finishes so we can cut it away from both the bleed and other pieces (if gang run)

                              Most days, I don't bother explaining creep to clients. I hate working out creep, but it's easier I do it than explaining it.
                              I actually like the way InDesign handles creep. You make a dummy of the final product on the actual paper, measure its thickness, then input that number. Works out pretty well.
                              http://brokenspokedesign.com

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Super basic, but should give you the essential set up concept. 8.5" x 11" finish size pieces can be run on 11x17" or 9x12" press sheets (among other set ups of course!)

                                Cheers.
                                Seriously, read this.

                                Comment

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