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  • #16
    Originally posted by Loccy92 View Post
    Im getting there :P Slowly but surely

    Also guys theres an area of this assignment where we need to talk to printers and give them a sort of survey. I went to one today and they seemed extremely rushed and barely answered anything. Plus they had me in and out with in 10 minutes. Unfortunately I must have picked a busy period. So if anyone here would be willing to do it for me that would be great.

    1. What are the most common problems with computer files supplied to printers?
    2. What advice could you give about delivering your files to a printer?
    3. What are the proof options available and what are the associated costs?
    4. Who signs off on the proof and what areas are scrutinised when examining the proof?



    The only real answer I took away from my earlier visit is that files for print should never be emailed to the printer because they take a long time to transfer.
    1. Depends upon alot , but starting with pdf format:
    Lack of embeded fonts, wrong color space, embedded profiles that do not match workflow output profiles, bad fonts, cmyk or rgb type-not black, low res graphics embedded into pdf, files with "borrowed" copyrighted materials and no credit line, files sent in printer spreads, wrong size-not at final output size, no bleed.
    Native Application Files:
    No links to the high res graphics, no fonts, bad fonts, version of software from 1995 that does not support what they are trying to do, no bleeds, files built in spreads, software the printer does not have to output the job.

    2. Always call and talk with a person in prepress, not the sales person>
    Let them listen to what you want and tell you what they need, then you will get what you expect.

    3. Options range depends upon your printer. Most shops do not support film based proofs - such as Chromalin or MatchPrint any longer due to the cost and lack of product. Proofs depend upon customer demands and so InkJet proofs pulled to match presss room specs are common place. Some shops use toner based proofs also from digital presses or higher end print egines such as copiers. Some shops still pull press proofs if you are willing to pay for them. Cost depends upon alot of things, size of the job, proof type selected, relationship with vendor, etc...

    4. Proof sign off should happen both internally at the printer and externally at the customer. Internally, the person that pulls the proof should reviiew it for content againest the file supplied and typically will pass to a CSR or the Sales person to review againest the specs of the job and then pass to the customer for sign off for color and content and dieline (if this applies).

    Keep in mind that depending upon the size of the shop you deal with and the scale of the project all things change. If you go to the local mom and pop shop that has 3 people working it, the person that pulls the proof will more than likely be the person that prints the job.

    Hope this at least gets you started, others will weigh in with more.
    "You're only given one little spark of madness. You musn't lose it" - Robin Williams

    Comment


    • #17
      Thanks Cisco! Very helpful

      Also just finished another question (not exactly finished but did as much as I could).

      The question was; "Describe the three main groups of offset printing papers - coated paper, uncoated paper and specialty papers. Paper quality or 'grade' varies within each of these three groups - discuss this further. Discuss how the paper you choose has an effect on the colour of an offset printed job. Define the paper characteristics 'weight', 'grain', 'bulk' and 'opacity'. How might these influence the paper choice for a double sided A4 trifold brochure with text and full colour graphics on both sides?"

      So yeah its a doozie.

      Heres what I have so far;
      "Paper that has clay, latex, PCC and other substances applied to it is what is called coated paper. It is capable of producing sharper, brighter images that regular uncoated paper. The coating fills in the small pits between the fibers in the paper which gives it a smooth finish and makes it less absorbent than uncoated paper. This makes is preferable when applying techniques such as spot coating and varnishing. Coated paper can come in matte, dull and glossy finishes and should not be confused with varnishing or laminating as they are similar but are added at the end of a job. Due to the added durability, coated paper is commonly used for brochures, catalogs mailers because it reduces the chance of damage.

      Uncoated paper has more of a rough feel to it as it does not have a coating filling the tiny pits between the fibers which gives it texture unlike the smooth feel of coated paper. Due to the lack of coating it also does not let off a glare which gives it a softer, warmer approach. This gives the printed image a more subtle feel which makes it populars among designers. Uncoated paper is used to produce low quality leaflets and brochures and also items such as newspapers, paper back books and most commonly the copy and printing paper widely used in home and office.

      A papers grain is the direction which the majority of the fibers run. Short grain paper s when the grain runs in the direction of the shorter sides of the paper. Where long grain paper is when the grain runs parallel to the longer sides. It is important not to fold against the grain as it will end up being rough and cracked along the folded line. The heavier the paper the more likely is it for this to occur.

      Paper bulk is a measurement that determines which printers can printers can handle it. It is the thickness of the paper in relation to its weight. The higher the papers bulk the stronger and more resilient the paper is.

      Opacity is the level of light that the papers allows the travel through it. It is set as a percentage, whereas the percentage chosen is the amount of light that is absorbed or reflected so it cannot travel through the paper. Opacity is important when a paper to print on as a low opacity paper will allow too much light to pass giving it a see through effect which can limit legibility and overall quality.

      When printing an item such as a brochure these characteristics influence the paper choice because due to the brochures nature it will likely need to be printed on a high opacity, high bulk, long grained sheet of paper to make it more resilient, legible and high quality with absence of damage."

      Now the parts about coated and uncoated paper I think I have done to a satisfactory standard, but as of now I haven't answered anything for specialty papers. While researching all I could find for specialty papers was ones that you would use in scrap booking and that really doesn't have anything to do with printing. So can anyone point me in the right direction of what you think I am supposed to be looking for? Also can someone help me understand what a papers 'grade' is? I've been on numerous webpages, gone through a lot of books and watched a fair few Youtube videos but the more I look into it the more I confuse myself. Also I don't think I've quite grasped what is meant by paper weight and bulk yet. When I looked into them all I could find was a myriad of rather confusing formulas and diagrams but nothing that really told me what they mean.

      Sorry for the long post and I hope you got all the way to the end and didn't TL;DR.

      So if anyone could help me clarify what Im meant to be looking for that would be amazing. I don't want you to do the research for me Just give me a little shove in the right direction.
      Im trying. Be gentle.

      Comment


      • #18
        1. Depends upon alot , but starting with pdf format:
        Lack of embeded fonts, wrong color space, embedded profiles that do not match workflow output profiles, bad fonts, cmyk or rgb type-not black, low res graphics embedded into pdf, files with "borrowed" copyrighted materials and no credit line, files sent in printer spreads, wrong size-not at final output size, no bleed.
        Native Application Files:
        No links to the high res graphics, no fonts, bad fonts, version of software from 1995 that does not support what they are trying to do, no bleeds, files built in spreads, software the printer does not have to output the job.


        Also forgot to add: small reverse type out of colored backgrounds, and total ink limits over 300 for coated and 260 for uncoated sheets.
        "You're only given one little spark of madness. You musn't lose it" - Robin Williams

        Comment


        • #19
          Have not a clue what you are syaing here:

          Paper bulk is a measurement that determines which printers can printers can handle it. It is the thickness of the paper in relation to its weight. The higher the papers bulk the stronger and more resilient the paper is.
          "You're only given one little spark of madness. You musn't lose it" - Robin Williams

          Comment


          • #20
            Specialty papers typically are silks, magnets, labels, and the such.

            Be careful about brightness statments of uncaoted vs coated sheets. I have Sugar Cane fibre paper here that is smoother, brighter and whiter than many of the coated sheets I print on and yet is considered uncoated.

            This link will help you with many paper questions:
            http://www.paper-paper.com/weight.html
            "You're only given one little spark of madness. You musn't lose it" - Robin Williams

            Comment


            • #21
              An ironic (in the context of this thread) but common file submission problem for prepress these days are PDFs that have been pre-imposed by the designer.

              Most of the time, it's best to leave that up to the printer. But I still think that every designer should really know and understand the basics of how all that works.

              Comment


              • #22
                Originally posted by Cisco1 View Post
                Have not a clue what you are syaing here:

                Paper bulk is a measurement that determines which printers can printers can handle it. It is the thickness of the paper in relation to its weight. The higher the papers bulk the stronger and more resilient the paper is.
                Yeah I was really unsure about that one. I posted what I thought it was just so someone could tell me if I'm on the right track or way off haha Guess it was the latter Ill give that one another try.

                Originally posted by Cisco1 View Post
                Specialty papers typically are silks, magnets, labels, and the such.

                Be careful about brightness statments of uncaoted vs coated sheets. I have Sugar Cane fibre paper here that is smoother, brighter and whiter than many of the coated sheets I print on and yet is considered uncoated.

                This link will help you with many paper questions:
                http://www.paper-paper.com/weight.html
                I never knew you could print on silk! Im going to look for some pictures of that because it sounds like it would be really cool and fun to do Also when it comes to magnets and labels would the specialty paper be the adhesive paper that its printed on, then stuck to a magnet?

                EDIT: Ah yes screen printing! Why didn't I even think of that... Its too late and I need coffee haha
                Last edited by Loccy92; 05-03-2012, 02:55 PM.
                Im trying. Be gentle.

                Comment


                • #23
                  1. What are the most common problems with computer files supplied to printers?

                  Clients bringing in web-graphics at 72-dpi grabbed off the net. PDF's with fonts not outlined, or graphics improperly embedded.

                  2. What advice could you give about delivering your files to a printer?

                  Call your printer BEFORE creating the files, to find out what works best for them. I.e. what kind of file, and delivery method.

                  3. What are the proof options available and what are the associated costs?

                  Too many variables.

                  4. Who signs off on the proof and what areas are scrutinised when examining the proof?

                  The end-user (customer) usually examines and sign off on the proof.
                  "I love deadlines. I love the 'whooshing' sound they make when they go by." - Doug Adams
                  LinkedIn

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Loccy92 View Post
                    For the larger jobs area I have; "In larger jobs and jobs that require multiple folds, imposition is used to order the pages so that upon completion are in a correct sequence". This one comes with a series of pictures that show a 16 page booklet set up in an imposition, then followed by how it would be folded to create the sequence and also a brochure with the same.
                    kemingMatters mentioned that this was called a signature, but I didn't see a follow-up from anyone on its importance.

                    Even though the printer is largely responsible for imposition, it's still very important for the designer to understand the process. For example, when designing multi-page printing, it's important to think in terms of signatures and to discuss with the printer the number of pages in each signature that will be most efficient given the variables, like page trim/bleed sizes, paper stock dimensions, press limitations, etc.

                    For example, a self-covered, 48-page, saddle-stitched booklet might be the end result of two 24-page signatures. Adding two extra pages wouldn't be possible since an increase in pages would have to be in increments of four. Even then, those four extra pages might very well increase the cost of the job substantially since it might still require those two 24-page signatures, plus a separate run through the press to print those four extra pages. Likewise scaling back a 48-page publication to, say, 44 pages will likely not make the printing cheaper and might actually increase the costs since four blank pages would need to be removed from one of the ideal 24-page signature — amounting to wasted paper and a little extra effort on the part of the printer.

                    Too often design students become fascinated with and focused on creating cool stuff and mastering software applications. But there's a huge amount to be learned about printing, paper, prepress and preparing files that is arguably just as important as learning Illustrator or InDesign. And from my point of view, more interesting.

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Everything that people are posting is getting read and taken in Im using all the everyone has said and Im trying to incorporate it into what Im doing as best as I can

                      When Im done everything I need to I'm going to post the end result
                      Im trying. Be gentle.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Another question for you printers out there

                        The assignment brief asks me to answer these questions under two separate headings for Digital Printing and Offset Printing. The question is "What are the most critical aspects designers should know about setting up their files for a print job, e.g., discuss image resolution, colour modes, colour profiles, working with fonts, black percentages, trapping, imposition and file types."

                        Aren't these all things that are practically similar despite how the printing is being done? And the difference between digital and offset is about the quality of the finished print, cost, choice of paper and quantity of prints you want done?

                        Or I am I missing the big picture of this?
                        Im trying. Be gentle.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Originally posted by Loccy92 View Post
                          Another question for you printers out there

                          The assignment brief asks me to answer these questions under two separate headings for Digital Printing and Offset Printing. The question is "What are the most critical aspects designers should know about setting up their files for a print job, e.g., discuss image resolution, colour modes, colour profiles, working with fonts, black percentages, trapping, imposition and file types."

                          Aren't these all things that are practically similar despite how the printing is being done? And the difference between digital and offset is about the quality of the finished print, cost, choice of paper and quantity of prints you want done?

                          Or I am I missing the big picture of this?
                          If you are asking are there differnet art specs for Digital and Offset the answer is - depends on project.

                          You may not know when you are starting a job if it going to be reproduced using Offset or Digital, that is why previously I stated you need to talk with the prepress person that is going to do the job.

                          Trapping, impositions, etc. vary by medias and press format size and finishing considerations as was mentioned by <b> previously. You need to put some answers here for us to look at and not want us to do it for you.
                          "You're only given one little spark of madness. You musn't lose it" - Robin Williams

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by Loccy92 View Post
                            Another question for you printers out there

                            The assignment brief asks me to answer these questions under two separate headings for Digital Printing and Offset Printing. The question is "What are the most critical aspects designers should know about setting up their files for a print job, e.g., discuss image resolution, colour modes, colour profiles, working with fonts, black percentages, trapping, imposition and file types."

                            Aren't these all things that are practically similar despite how the printing is being done? And the difference between digital and offset is about the quality of the finished print, cost, choice of paper and quantity of prints you want done?

                            Or I am I missing the big picture of this?
                            Color mode is self explanatory - use CMYK, not RGB. However, some printers will want a certain CMYK profile.

                            Most of the rest can only be answered accurately with a call to your print shop.

                            This if for offset:

                            Resolution is dependent on the output line screen. The rule of thumb is resolution = 2x line screen. That's not 100% accurate, as the resolution required is actually a little less, but if you follow that rule you'll be fine. But, you'll have to call and see what line screen the file is going to be output at. So if the job is going to be output at 150 line screen, you should have images that are 300 ppi (at print size) to be safe.

                            Trapping, black percentage, impostion, and file type again depend on what the printer wants. We like to impose files ourselves, so we prefer the designer send the file in one-up. We like a certain amount of trapping, but even if you specify something different, our RIP will override it anyways.

                            For digital you can usually get away with more. But, again it depends on the output device. For instance, our digital press will print a 250 ppi image and a 400 ppi image the same way. So anything over 250 is overkill.

                            If you need any help feel free to PM me and I'll answer whatever questions you have.
                            http://brokenspokedesign.com

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Loccy92

                              Its so great that you are looking into all of these things at this point in your education! I will be reading through this post in more detail, when I have time, as I'm sure there are things in here that I don't know about. I usually don't have to deal with printing issues or vendors very often.

                              I do however recommend that you contact local printers in your area and ask if you can come in and take a tour. Have them show you around the shop, show your the different presses, what plates actually look like (this was amazing for me the first time i saw it ). Maybe if you have a few days off from class, you can even ask them if you can do some sort of shadowing of their production and press team. Seeing all of these things in person will give you a much better grasp.

                              I apologize if someone has already mentioned this...I haven't read through the whole thread!

                              Good luck!

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Originally posted by yellow swan View Post
                                Loccy92

                                Its so great that you are looking into all of these things at this point in your education! I will be reading through this post in more detail, when I have time, as I'm sure there are things in here that I don't know about. I usually don't have to deal with printing issues or vendors very often.

                                I do however recommend that you contact local printers in your area and ask if you can come in and take a tour. Have them show you around the shop, show your the different presses, what plates actually look like (this was amazing for me the first time i saw it ). Maybe if you have a few days off from class, you can even ask them if you can do some sort of shadowing of their production and press team. Seeing all of these things in person will give you a much better grasp.

                                I apologize if someone has already mentioned this...I haven't read through the whole thread!

                                Good luck!
                                Or better yet ask about internships...
                                http://brokenspokedesign.com

                                Comment

                                 
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