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  • More sketchiness questions

    Does anyone have any good advice on how to achieve a similar texture to the images below? I asked a similar question awhile ago, but even doing it by hand and then transferring to Illustrator and live tracing did not produce very steady results. I have seen quite a few cross hatching/printing textures on some quality logos, but I can't figure out how to achieve it in Illustrator.

    What's the point of doing the stippling, cross hatching, or shading only to redo everything in Illustrator? Also, in the vintage car and bicycle images there is more than just hatching and stippling involved (or so it appears to me), which looks like just very soft pencil strokes. I am a 100% clueless on how that would be achieved in vector format without the use of photoshop.

    Thanks fellow cool Illustrators that I hope to be one day, but am oh so far away. Patience young grasshopper....


    Help to achieve this in Illustrator Vintage printing appearance

  • #2
    Drawing by hand and live tracing the results is how I would do it too.

    Are you able to post your attempt to draw hand and then transferring to Illustrator and live tracing? Just a sample and we can see what's gone wrong. Live trace has lots of settings that can be altered and using a high or low res jpg to begin with with will you different results.
    It is more fun to talk with someone who doesn't use long, difficult words but rather short, easy words like "What about lunch?" Winnie the Pooh

    Comment


    • Michah99
      Michah99 commented
      Editing a comment
      Thanks Buda-I will try to upload a sketch again when I'm around a scanner. I will read a few more tips on live trace to see if I'm missing something.

    • Michah99
      Michah99 commented
      Editing a comment
      Hey-wanted to let you know I took a real vintage photo from the old engraving days and tried using the live trace again. After a couple hours I got pretty close! I ended up manipulating the photo first to produce more tones, which was the key from what I could find.

  • #3
    I can't help but wonder why you want to move something, like an old engraving, etching or woodcut, or something drawn in that style into Illustrator. Every medium has it's advantages and drawbacks. Why try to force one to look like another? Logos really ought to be done in a vector format for several good reasons, but Illustrator ha its limitations, and the best Illustrator work is done within those limitations. I wouldn't use the live tracing feature, but I suppose drawing cross hatched line art directly in Illustrator would be possible, but it would be a pain in the butt best avoided for me.

    Comment


    • kemingMatters
      kemingMatters commented
      Editing a comment
      I just use the blob brush tool and a tablet and draw directly in AI, it's not really anymore difficult than drawing with a pen once you get your settings tuned up to how you like them.

  • #4
    Well, I guess because it's rather puzzling to me. I enjoy learning and am surprised how many logos have the same etch effect. I presume the logos were constructed in Illustrator, being they were high quality and couldn't imagine the designer being a novice and making in PS but IDK.

    Your right though, vector formats have their limitations and maybe the mystery will never be revealed.

    Comment


    • #5
      The examples that you showed in your first post are all likely hand-done steel engravings or, possibly, etchings. This method was extremely time consuming, took years to learn and is largely an obsolete and lost art that hardly anybody does anymore. I've never really seen anything like them done in illustrator, although it would be possible (and difficult). I'm not sure I've seen a similar logo that I suspected of being drawn in Illustrator either, but I've seen a few similar to what you've shown that were likely drawn on scratchboard or with a technical pen. Have you got a few links to what you're referring to, so we can venture a guess?

      Comment


      • Michah99
        Michah99 commented
        Editing a comment
        I couldn't link to them so posted some images below so you don't think I am too crazy....I'm also not saying this is the best form for any brand, but still intriguing

    • #6
      I was given an internal server error when linking to the images so I just cropped them down and reduced their file sizes to attach the images.

      They are not all in the exact Edwardian engraving styles or etched, some are a combo, some are just stippled slightly, but the textures are still there.

      I know the older methods were used to produce the effects, at least the fine art you see. From what I have researched the newer stuff is done by hand to mimic it. I personally find cross hatching and hand etchings the most difficult to create. Creating contour and value is a bit challenging for me.

      Comment


      • #7
        It's not possible for me to say for sure, but I suspect that there's a combination of techniques in those examples. Some, I think, are just scanned in public domain artwork from the 1800s. Those illustrations in vector format -- if any are -- were likely scanned in, positioned in Illustrator's template layer and laboriously redrawn by hand.

        One thing to consider about old engravings is that nobody really expects them to be razor sharp, like a more modern-looking logo. If the resolution isn't quite there on a bitmapped file, the overall look is a lot more forgiving of the irregularities that result from it. For that matter, if they start looking too precise and sharp, they start looking mechanical and lose that hand-drawn, organic look that makes them appealing in the first place.

        Come to think of it, just recently I needed the logo of The Peregrine Fund (a bird conservation organization). They use an old-looking line drawing of a peregrine falcon as part of their logo. I contacted them about the logo and was told that a vector version of the bird didn't exist, and that all they've ever had are high-resolution bitmap versions of it.

        Comment


        • Michah99
          Michah99 commented
          Editing a comment
          Yes, that's why I find it so confounding. The sharper they appear the worse they look.

          Maybe they are all in bitmap images. I did make some Illustrator cross hatching and stippling brushes from photos I am going to try out.

          I also realized the drawings can be scanned and then cleaned up in Photoshop before taking over to Illustrator. When you pick out the mid tones more they transfer over easier.

          That being said nothing is as cool as the real thing. I am attaching an image I thought you might enjoy below.

          Thanks for your help B star.

      • #8
        I heart engraving and the classic print techniques. I found this image using the old stippling for texture and shading along with the engraved piece. I have a hard time drawing with my hand let alone a fine point needle like she uses.

        Enjoy

        Comment


        • B
          B commented
          Editing a comment
          I really don't know how anybody has the skill and patience for that sort of thing. Hand carving a delicate drawing into a metal plate seems impossible to me, yet people do it. What also amazes me is that this incredibly time-consuming and laborious process used to be a fairly common way of illustrating books and newspapers before cheaper and faster methods were invented.

        • Michah99
          Michah99 commented
          Editing a comment
          Yes! That process would not suit my personality. I think the intricacy is interesting, but not something I would enjoy long term. I could maybe get the letter 'L' out and that's about it.

      • #9
        Although I've posted this video in the past, I think it's warrants a repost. Enjoy



        Sketching not only helps you work out good ideas, it helps you get past the bad ones.

        Comment


        • Michah99
          Michah99 commented
          Editing a comment
          I haven't seen that, but thanks for the vid! I can't image the patience one must have for that line of work. Wish I did.

      • #10
        From Kemings comment above...
        I just use the blob brush tool and a tablet and draw directly in AI, it's not really anymore difficult than drawing with a pen once you get your settings tuned up to how you like them.
        I did a recent website graphic project that way where they wanted lots of little simple "science" and "math" sketches in the backgrounds. It worked great and has that hand drawn on paper look even though it was drawn using the blob brush.

        Unfortunately they have not finished the site yet, and it seems they have come to a stand still on development. But they do have some test pages up if you want to see the results of my sketchiness. It is nothing super impressive, I just basically doodled and they liked it.

        http://lrn2college.com/physics/test.php
        http://lrn2college.com/math/test.php
        http://lrn2college.com/chemistry/test.php

        Last edited by skribe; 07-29-2013, 01:06 PM.
        .

        Comment


        • Michah99
          Michah99 commented
          Editing a comment
          Are you referring to the background? The slides were empty. Sad I know more about what those equations mean then design

          Yah those are sketchy goodness. I did make some sketch brushes for stippling and some hatching I will try by hand today. It just seems like I am doing it wrong though. Check out the bottom photo I posted. That is some pretty accurate engraving.

          I am wondering if that is done in Photoshop first and then transferred over. It seems to perfect to be shaded by hand and then brought directly in.

      • #11
        You can force irregularities using technology. One exercise we did in school as to reduce a black and white logo (or drawing in this case) on a photocopier, then blow it up. Keep doing that a few times and presto. Irregularities. From there, you could scan and live trace with those irregularities intact.
        It is more fun to talk with someone who doesn't use long, difficult words but rather short, easy words like "What about lunch?" Winnie the Pooh

        Comment


        • #12
          Originally posted by Buda View Post
          You can force irregularities using technology. One exercise we did in school as to reduce a black and white logo (or drawing in this case) on a photocopier, then blow it up. Keep doing that a few times and presto. Irregularities. From there, you could scan and live trace with those irregularities intact.
          That's what I ended up doing too. I also started using a screen printing method in Photoshop to really separate the tonal ranges before bringing over to AI. I gives it a little extra stipple effect for texture. It's still not as pronounced as the graphics I provided, but maybe as my drawing continues to improve...

          Comment


          • #13
            This is a perfect example of what I was hoping to achieve. These are actual Vector Illustrations. Pretty neat stuff.

            Comment


            • #14
              Variable width tool and strokes is your friend to achieve this. I love woodcut and engraving so from time to time I play around with it. I've attached an example of an illustration I did a month or two ago. All I did in here was adjust the stroke weight, this is pretty much the basic of how you'd go about achieving what you linked. The barrel was more manually tweaked in certain places to give it the worn out look, time consuming but it's how it goes for things like this. For things like stipling etc you make a brush and go from there and for cross hatching you should be using a tablet otherwise it can be very time consuming. Click image for larger version

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              Last edited by illustrative; 08-06-2013, 06:33 AM.

              Comment


              • #15
                Illustrative, I wish that I had seen the image you posted of your work before you were banned. It's really very beautiful, but I'm even more impressed by you having done that in Illustrator. I've honestly been a little skeptical of some of the things you've written, but those impressions were seemingly wrong.

                Even so, I'm still standing by my claim that Illustrator is the wrong tool for this kind of thing, but only because very few people, including me, could ever get the natural-looking results from it that you apparently get. I don't know how long it took you to create something like that in Illustrator, but it's really nice. I'd love to be able to use Illustrator like that.

                Comment


                • Michah99
                  Michah99 commented
                  Editing a comment
                  Let me just say 'B', even though this is a couple months late, Illustrator is definitely the WRONG tool for this! I know because I just did it and although I like how it turned out, there is a reason we do not see engravings anymore. The engravings I am referring to are the old illustrative concepts from the late 1800s often seen in French and German magazines, medical books, and other literary media. Phew that was an exhausting obsession of mine!

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