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  • PrintDriver
    Reply to Happy Last Friday of July!!!!
    PrintDriver
    Happy Friday.
    It's been a nice quiet July for a change. Too bad it's over so quickly. Why does the slide into winter never take as long as the slide into spring?...
    Today, 10:14 PM
  • PrintDriver
    Comment on Happy Last Friday of July!!!!
    PrintDriver
    Just clicky the little arrow next to the "Originally posted by..." line. Takes you right to it.
    Today, 10:12 PM
  • Kayekaye
    Comment on Seeking critiques
    Kayekaye
    Try a thin rule circle for the sun inside the diamond like sun points. Would have to be heavier the smaller it went. But currently I find very few black only demands for logos like yours. You can always...
    Today, 08:49 PM
  • salsa
    Reply to Happy Last Friday of July!!!!
    salsa
    Happy Friday! I'm going to have to go back and find some of these threads! LOL. How do I miss them? Is there a secret passageway to where all the good stuff is kept? It feels like high school all over...
    Today, 08:31 PM
  • Cosmo
    Comment on Please help with company logo
    Cosmo
    There is way too much going on. Think about that logo the size it needs to be on a business card. Will you still be able to make out all the different elements? Simplify, simplify, simplify.
    ...
    Today, 08:28 PM
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  • #16
    From what I have experienced you either have the skill or you don't Given that you blatantly acknowledged your lack of skill I think it is safe to say your not naturally talented. However, design like anything can be learned. Though I doubt you will get anywhere on your own unless you already have some raw talent. The problem is that unlike programming you can't just run the program and see if it works. Design isn't like that. Granted programming isn't really like that either considering there are a whole bunch of things to consider that in many cases can be more important than the program running. Though design is more like that end of spectrum without away to actually see/prove your on the right track without trained instruction. I think just about everyone who does well by themselves has a significant amount of talent to start. Without that talent I don't think anyone can learn design or anything else for that matter on their own without guidance. Design is painful. You can spend 16 hours on a program with a 99% chance that your not going to throw away much work. With design though you can easily spend 16 hours and get no where besides having process to show.
    Last edited by tZ; 04-10-2012, 04:32 AM.

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    • #17
      I guess there is a huge gap in the idea of this thread.

      I tried to find someone here to guide me, to see one or two of my jobs per week and say "You are getting good at x but you very week at y and z. Try to learn more about y and z" and also give me some advices until I become a professional. What I found was people saying "It's impossible to learn design, unless you enter a formal design school". From that I tried to defend my idea that you can learn anything without going to school, but you will need dedication and in some cases (design is one of this cases) you will need someone experienced to tell you where you are in the road of learning.

      But now people here are assuming that I am trying to open a business without trying to learn anything! That is not what I want! I just want someone to help me to get good while I can't afford a school. When I said I could help with small jobs, I wasn't meaning "pick me and I will work for you in the next minute", it could take months to she/he trust me the first peace of job!

      Anyway, I already found help in other places. I will come back to this forum when I get good!

      Thank you everyone here for your time!

      Comment


      • #18
        So you're looking to hire a tutor?
        ___________
        Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me.

        blog/portfolio

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        • #19
          Originally posted by Galaad View Post
          I tried to find someone here to guide me.... Try to learn more about y and z" and also give me some advices until I become a professional. What I found was people saying "It's impossible to learn design, unless you enter a formal design school". From that I tried to defend my idea... But now people here are assuming that I am trying to open a business without trying to learn anything! That is not what I want! I just want someone to...
          Ironically, this thread and your statements above are illustrative of one of the very reasons why in-person learning in a traditional design school environment is so important.

          A formal design education mostly consists of planned, structured and goal-oriented design assignments, lots and lots of practice combined with rigorous, honest and, sometimes, brutal criticism. It's the deliberate structure and interpersonal relationships of the learning environment that facilitates the molding of a novice into someone who thinks like and sees the world through the eyes of a designer.

          Essential for this learning and developmental process to work is the unfettered and immediate exchange of information that is facilitated by close working relationships and critiques from fellow students and professional design instructors. An online environment, as your statements above illustrate, is laden with fractured thoughts, delays and miscommunication. It's severely hobbled in its ability to enable the participates to engage in the immediate flow of back-and-forth communication that's so important in mastering disciplines like design.

          Design isn't about learning software applications or studying books or memorizing concepts and formulas. Instead, mastering the field of design involves learning to see the world from a different vantage point. This vantage point lies at the uncomfortable intersection of critical analysis and art where intuition, emotion, experience, creativity and aesthetics come together to solve difficult, real-world analytical problems.

          Constant communication, feedback and criticism from peers and more advanced professionals is necessary to learn and develop these skills and attitudes. It's not something that you can do without guidance since you'll almost certainly wander off the path and miss arriving at that precise vantage point that I mentioned.

          You're asking for that kind of online guidance, but it won't happen. It really can't happen in a truly effective and efficient way through an online mentoring situation. The words in a forum or in an email lack the immediacy and the emotion of in-person communication. The non-verbal communication is absent, as is the learning and insights that are picked up from the observations made possible through interacting with those more advanced and more skilled than yourself.

          On this forum, the critique section is one of the most popular categories. Bright beginning designers soon come to realize that it's the honest, critical evaluation of their work from peers and professionals that results in the dramatic leaps of insight that are so important on the road to becoming a designer. From personal experience, however, these online critiques, as useful as they might be, are poor substitutes for the critiques a design student receives in a structured classroom situation.

          To become a designer you need to fully immerse yourself into it without reservation, then breathe it in very deeply not just tinker around the edges by typing words into computer and waiting for replies from someone on the Internet.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Galaad View Post
            Please, I need some advices to start make some money fast. I am near to quit my university because I can't afford it anymore.
            And I am looking for a mentor. I can help finish some simple jobs for just guidance.
            So you want to make money fast...

            Originally posted by Galaad View Post
            I am not saying that you, professional designers with lots of experience are wrong in trying to protect your ground. I deeply agree with you, but I don't see why not to try to help beginners other way than just say "go to a design school and get a regular formation". You don't need to waste your time with everyone newcomer, you can recommend some materials, see some of their material and tell them what they need to get better before to start in the professional field.
            But now you respect our industry as requiring experience... except apparently you don't need "school" garnered skills in order to get experience and hone talent...

            Originally posted by Galaad View Post
            I tried to find someone here to guide me, to see one or two of my jobs per week and say "You are getting good at x but you very week at y and z. Try to learn more about y and z" and also give me some advices until I become a professional. What I found was people saying "It's impossible to learn design, unless you enter a formal design school". From that I tried to defend my idea that you can learn anything without going to school, but you will need dedication and in some cases (design is one of this cases) you will need someone experienced to tell you where you are in the road of learning.
            But now people here are assuming that I am trying to open a business without trying to learn anything! That is not what I want! I just want someone to help me to get good while I can't afford a school. When I said I could help with small jobs, I wasn't meaning "pick me and I will work for you in the next minute", it could take months to she/he trust me the first peace of job!
            And now you want someone to look at your work that you are getting PAID for from other clients and tell you what to do with it. Are you going to pay this mentor?

            You cannot be in business making money without a foundation of skills. Period. Or you will get caught along the way and be in trouble. I promise you that. Something will happen that is a huge mistake that you made or cannot fix and suddenly an actual professional is coming in fixing all your stuff and the client finds out how useless you really are.
            Is this harsh? Yes.
            But it's also true.

            You and every other clown out there want to make money while knowing nothing. You're not more special than any other new designer that doesn't want to invest the money and time into the industry. This is not a get rich quick industry. Maybe hollywood is. I encourage you to go be an actor if you believe that those guys didn't sacrifice everything to get there.
            I'd rather be hated for who I am, than loved for who I am not. ~ Kurt Cobain

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            • #21
              You're welcome to create a site, then post it in the Crit Pit for constructive criticism. Several people will tell you what you're doing wrong. As far as one person to mentor you, are you going to pay them for their time? Time is a valuable commodity. Few people will be willing to give it to you for free. Might as well go to school and learn it correctly from the start instead of throwing stuff at the wall, seeing what sticks, and then trying to fix what you don't even know is wrong.
              ___________
              Burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me.

              blog/portfolio

              Comment


              • #22
                The best way to learn effectively is to learn from others (professionals or better ones). What I mean is that you have to read and watch tutorials on the internet before you can actually apply your skills.

                To give you a piece of advice, always search for good designs on the internet.These designs will give you an idea which ones are good and which ones are not.

                Well, you can always experiment. Try to make a design, show it to people and ask them if your design is good or what.

                Good luck Galaad.

                Comment

                 
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