popey - I love arial....but i think you should change the navigation font....I dont like the scrolling text especially since there is a link to the place you got it from I like the background....but my eyes dont know where to start on the page.....

zotschie - the splash pages are both cheesy... especially hit counters which are very very bad....add us to your favorites is bad too

frames are not good either....the buttons in the navigation are not the most professional thing

here is my advice to alot of people, look at some good sites....see how they do things....does nike, jaguar or bwm's sites have hit counters, add us to your favorites buttons...?? nope....

find elements of sites you like and work from there..... look at shoe company, car manfacturing and beer and liquor company's sites.

popey is better because the background is nice.....but its a bit plain and there is not visual hierarcy

Slick around and you will learn a ton....welcome to the GDF

JUST LAUNCHED - www.hirethisdesigner.com - check it out

here is a super simple layout and design that works its nothing fancy but its super clean and professional

www.tivo.com

www.jaguarusa.com/us/en/home.htm

here is one that has some bells and whistles

scion.com/

JUST LAUNCHED - www.hirethisdesigner.com - check it out

Post Edited (BIG PERM) : 5/18/2004 2:06:08 PM GMT

popey: Nice simple layout. I gree w/ Perm, the text could use a bit more umph... Arial is great, but too much can give a sterile look. I like your background image too. My main suggestion here would be: tell my eye where to go. Like Perm said, there's no real visual heirarchy. You'll need to implement a better use of typography to emphasize certain areas of your site.

zotschie: This site needs some work imo. Cut the splash page, remove the frameset, and add more design. The hit couter and add to my favorites could go too. Those are sort of like 'Look what I know how to do' elements that tend to clutter things up w/o adding any good content to the site. That being said, this site looks a little unfinished. Aside from the nav bar, there's no real layout to this site; just a strait collumn of content down the center of the browser window.

The popey site is better, IMO. You've made better use of design, layout, and imagery than zotschie. Keep working and always ask questions. You'll learn a lot that way.

Thanks for the feedback. Will be changing a lot over the next few days.

Popey.tk is better. I like the layout. I'm not too crazy about marquees. If JavaScript is disable, what shows on the site is a big question.

Fat 30 Legends screams amature. Marquees in the status bar are very annoying. The site is very plain too. I'm not a big fan of frames either. I don't like having a part of the page stationary at all times.



C:\DOS
C:\DOS\RUN
RUN DOS RUN

Popey.tk is pretty good, but yeah, I agree with everyone else, use less javascript! All of that fancy stuff just ups the chances of something breaking on some incompatable browser. The other site is very, very ad

http://www.ianlabs.com

Popey.tk is no doubt different. But in this case i don't think this is a good thing. The overall layout is too bland with annoying moving news down the side. I'm also not a fan of that i-frame, leave that layout to flash and layered websites. Javascript was designed for ease of use, if you want to look professional, you won't use it. The words are big and tacky and to be honest, i have no idea what you were thinking when you stole that black and white tacky background either. It's 2004, not 1984.

Zotchie's site is a minor improvement in the overall layout regard. There is nothing wrong with the use of simple frames in a case like that for navigation purposes and even though the background is black, it has a lot more color and excitement than the other. The major complaint would be that it's not original in regard to the 'borrowed' flash buttons and layout but the custom image titles are very catchy and good use is made of tables within the site.

Overall, popey's site just doesn't take the cake. If you want to use modern laying out like that make it a little more stylish. I'd scrap the lot and rethink it, because it's hardly ever that a web designer will get a satisfactory result in the first few tries. Zotchie needs to think about making his own navigation system and perhaps improving that layout but there is definitely potential there. Especially technically with some of that content! (I know, content doesn't matter in this case but it can sometimes make the design a whole lot better).

I'm gonna try not to be mean but i am a bit like simon cowell (thats us brits for ya).
-Zotchie-
I don't know where to start, the website honestly looks like someones very first taste of web design. it looks like a 'geocities' or 'angelfire' it has free java elements w/adverts, cheesy headers using frames, free downloaded buttons (well they look like it) don't take it too personal but it is VERY un-proffesional.
-Popey-
This is ok, i like sites that are made in flash, but dont just throw in elements you find on free websites do tutorials and learn how to make it yourself from scratch it is a lot more rewarding and like perm was saying, nike ect. they build there websites from the ground up. Graphics and Logos, Navigation. its all designed and programed by nike. the background is ok, and i like the on mouse over for the buttons, but i dont like the font, it doesnt agree whith the background and it stands out more than the page content. what is more important? i don't like the font sizes they need to be thought out more.

I know sometimes you get harsh critism at times, but take it and use it. it makes you a lot better, trust me.

i think you should do what i do. learn some things, then use what you learn, dont take other peoples FREE work, its FREE for a reason, that reason is it is thier creative ideas. build a website from the ground up and dont stick elements in it unless you make them, it will look a lot better.
look at these websites for good ideas on what a GOOD website looks like:
www.casdsgn.com (case desgn, Flash Expert, he knows his sh!T)
www.hirethisdesigner.com (BIG PERM's website, i would hire him
they are two good ones, and they have links to other good websites. look at them and try to see what all of thier websites have in common.
Graphic Design is very fun, and can be very rewarding if you are willing to learn. Stick whith it, you will get a lot better, i have. i used to make websites like your's (its a shame i diddnt keep any) but now i am learning more and more, thanks partly to this forum.
Liam
ps you can check out my website if you want, it isnt anything special but its one i am working on. www.ice-design.ws



http://www.ice-design.ws