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  • #16
    Kem, Illustrator uses the clipping mask as a boundary now. Certainly in CS5 anyway.

    Corel is more like sign software in having a lot of easy, clean ways to do things that Illustrator (or rather Adobe) hasn't really even given much thought. I like to imagine sometimes what Illustrator would be like if a sign guy actually had some input into its workings...

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by PrintDriver View Post
      When doing your tin plate sign, you have to take into account light direction. It wouldn't be dark all around the inside and light all around the outside.
      PrintDriver <--

      Thanks for your input. As mentioned earlier this was just a quick mock-up I made in order to show the idea of what I wanted to do.

      I am well aware of the fact that the lighting would not be equal on both sides but that is just what my problem was all about.

      I am looking for an effective way of controlling the corners and subtle areas that dont warp exactly the same way as the sides that are more streamlined.

      Shadows and highlights wouldn't be "even" here rather than probably more random. So I am still keen on knowing how to control this.

      Also..., you posted about transparency masks as a help to do all of the above.

      Could you elaborate on that part, please...?

      Thanks!
      Relax, there is enough stress for everyone!

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by kemingMatters View Post
        for # 1: "bulge" is somewhat a pseudo-3D warp effect, that's why it appears the way it does. You could also do this in a two step process using arc-upper, expand the effect, then arc-lower.

        for # 2: make a compound path of the "ridge" and *cringe* use the bevel/emboss photoshop effect if you're going for speed over quality. Just make sure your raster effects are set to a suitable DPI.

        kemingMatters <--

        Thanks also here for your input.

        I follow you in regards to the first step. However I am a bit lost in regards to number two.

        Could you also elaborate here a bit more on how to apply that compound path - if possible with a "technical drawing" that explains the same...?

        Thanks in advance...!
        Relax, there is enough stress for everyone!

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        • #19
          It's quite simple really draw a shape, draw another smaller shape completely on top if the first shape, select both shapes and press cmd+8 (not sure what it is on pc probably ctrl+8) our select object/paths/make compound path.
          Design is not decoration.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Bob View Post
            Corel has a lot of weaknesses and potholes. But in get down to vector shape drawing -- it's real 'Core' toolset, it's at time quite brilliant.

            Unfortunately, over times (again, decades), Adobe seems to have taken the tactic of adding many of Corel's less stable 'features' and frivolous tools first, and only in the last five or six years have we seen Adobe trying to finally add more primary, but useful things which have been standard in Draw for so long. Like interactive gradient control lines, (only Corel's is much faster/better), or making a clipped object's boundary -- woah-- the clipping path!

            And by the way, perspective distort (Free transform +Cmnd/Shft) is NOT the same as the taper I was talking about.

            Check out this little video on Corel X6's latest shape tool effects:
            http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnfq3VTfI3s

            Coming soon (2020?) to a newer version of Ai?

            All I'm saying is that if someone (not me) had the time to actually sit down and plot the migration of features that have were pioneered and then migrated from CorelDraw to Ai over the last twenty years, it might add up to a slightly embarassing case of innovation blushing for a certain development team that remains largely immune to true user criticism.

            Bob <--

            Thanks to both of you guys for the interesting discussion about Illustrator vs. Corel etc.

            I am myself an "Illustrator guy" and when first laying my hands on Illustrator (I think it was 6.0 back then - yuck!) I was not only annoyed but directly frustrated with the logic behind selections, the two arrows for direct and point selection, the constant deselecting and many other little things making me want to throw the whole thing out.

            This is almost 15 years ago now and since then things have drastically improved. However if what I can read out of the comments here is true then it seems like one big "shocker" to me.

            I also agree totally on the Adobe developers' attitude being completely out of sync with reality or their customers' criticism. I tried this with Photoshop and non-working scanner-drivers (import function not working after update) about a year ago and can affirm that it was quite stunning to see such arrogance and denial of having any responsibility or part in the problem.

            On the other hand I have come quite accustomized to working with Illustrator which I learned to "love" and know as well as ID which is the primary software I work with. I only once and more than two decades ago worked for a year or so with Corel and although it worked I wasn't too impressed with it. It seemed "cheap" if I may put it that way.

            However I recently have been to a job interview in a company that actually makes prints on t-shirts, linen bags and other textile materials and now understand much better why they told me back then that Corel was their preferred software and better at handling jobs for that type of printing.

            Looking into the video that you posted the link for, I cannot see the great "exact" demonstrations of how Corel handles my particular problem with the type warp that comes out skew. Some tools seem to work better while others seem very messy in fact. What I can't see though is the more "automated tools" like "envelope distort" or similar in action. Maybe it's in Corel but it's not demonstrated in this video.

            So in conclusion I am left with the same problem that leads me to two questions...

            1. Is Corel simply the program to go with when warping text like this in the way I am trying to whereas Illustrator is not and...

            2. ...is it possible to find a plug-in for Illustrator that can do this action and if yes, which one/what is it called (maybe someone can provide a link)?

            Hoping to get some more input on the above...!
            Relax, there is enough stress for everyone!

            Comment


            • #21
              Wait, what? OP's been using Illustrator for 15 or so years and didn't know how to make a compound path? Me thinks, someone is trying to pull the wool over our eyes...
              Design is not decoration.

              Comment


              • #22
                To learn about opacity masks, please consult the Illustrator Help documents.
                You should also be able to warp your text in Illustrator using the tools available. It's a little more picky and requires a bit of fiddlin around with but you can make it do what you want, most times.

                Comment


                • #23
                  Corel X5 screenshot showing some envelope options and an applied bevel (it's all vector but the bevel is acutally a raster effect. I should have included an extruded bevel which is true vector).

                  The first envelope effect (with handles visible) is a vertical with manually adjustable handles. The second is the vertical applied within a drawn oval as the envelope shape (you can use independent envelope shapes in AI envelopes as well, of course).

                  The last is just to show that text within an envelope remains editable.



                  Last edited by Bob; 05-09-2012, 10:40 AM.

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                  • #24
                    Originally posted by kemingMatters View Post
                    Wait, what? OP's been using Illustrator for 15 or so years and didn't know how to make a compound path? Me thinks, someone is trying to pull the wool over our eyes...

                    Hold your horses, master of all puppets..., hold your horses...!

                    OP's...???

                    I didn't imply in any of my posts that I do not know how to use compound paths which I do.

                    I described a PARTICULAR problem that I had whereas someone suggested using compound paths. I wasn't asking HOW to make compound paths. I was merely implying HOW to APPLY them in a way so they would solve the problem.

                    This was in part due to the fact that I started out approaching the problem while trying to use gradient mesh (since I have seen a guy here on this forum that uses it to apply colors, shades and highlights to very realistically looking drawings entirely made in Illustrator - if you are still here on this forum and am reading this CkretAgent then please throw me an answer).

                    However other suggestions were made. If I know the technical aspect that doesn't mean I necessarily understand the way people imagine how to use those techniques in order to solve the puzzle.

                    That's why I asked for elaboration or a technical drawing my friend.

                    I hope that this put things clearer...
                    Relax, there is enough stress for everyone!

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by PrintDriver View Post
                      To learn about opacity masks, please consult the Illustrator Help documents.
                      You should also be able to warp your text in Illustrator using the tools available. It's a little more picky and requires a bit of fiddlin around with but you can make it do what you want, most times.

                      Also here my answer is the same. I DO know the technical aspect behind opacity masks and can easily create them. What I was looking for was an explanation as to how you wanted to apply this techique in order to achieve the subtle shading, tints and highlights in implicate areas?

                      I am well aware of the fact that painstakingly drawing each and every area as an overlay/on another layer and then treating that very area would be a possibility but a dreaded one.

                      What I am looking for is a quick applicable way of doing the same and in an easier and/or more simple manner...
                      Relax, there is enough stress for everyone!

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Bob View Post
                        Corel X5 screenshot showing some envelope options and an applied bevel (it's all vector but the bevel is acutally a raster effect. I should have included an extruded bevel which is true vector).

                        The first envelope effect (with handles visible) is a vertical with manually adjustable handles. The second is the vertical applied within a drawn oval as the envelope shape (you can use independent envelope shapes in AI envelopes as well, of course).

                        The last is just to show that text within an envelope remains editable.

                        Thanks for taking the time to make and post this.

                        I did the bevel with real vector extrude and am also familiar with the raster bevel (Photoshop filters) in Illustrator. So the possibility is good to have. However as you also stated my intent is to keep it vector all the way plus that the problem of control of changing areas in the "vector bevel" - at least the easy way I am looking for - is still a problem.

                        Say you want to tweak the vector bevel afterwards at the corners where there are highlights/reflections of the light on the metal ridge but right next to those various tints of blue as well as dark shades.

                        This is still my headache trying to achieve all of that in an easy, quick and simple way...


                        In regards to warping text in Corel. I can see that also here the program isn't able to not mess up with the - in this case - horizontal lines of the "G" in BIG.

                        I tried out the advice earlier given by kemingMatters in regards to warp first with upper arch, expanding, then warping with lower arch. This looks actually much better than the "bulge" option but still messes up with the G as seen here in your example (although not so much I think).

                        So I twisted and tweaked it a bit and found that the problem now lies within getting those three horizontal lines on the right opening of the G straightened out towards each other and the bend taken out of them. This way it almost looks quite good and 99% acceptable.

                        Still, I'd really love to hear your experiences with that plug-in and the name or link to it that you used with success for your CAD-drawings if possible.

                        Could you kindly post something like that...?

                        Thanks in advance...!
                        Relax, there is enough stress for everyone!

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          I don't think CADtools will do what you want.
                          https://www.hotdoor.com/cadtools/overview

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by PrintDriver View Post
                            I don't think CADtools will do what you want.
                            https://www.hotdoor.com/cadtools/overview
                            Thanks for the link. I agree. I don't think this is the way to go.

                            However you and "kemingmatters" had both ideas for the tin-sign issue.

                            I have asked several times for your advice on how to apply these techniques suggested. Nobody has yet elaborated on this nor have I gotten closer to a solution to fixing certain intrigue areas like the corners on the ridge etc. in an easy and fast editable way.

                            Are you guys not willing to share this...? Because if so, it's fine. I understand.

                            I'd just like to know if it is possible to get some hints on solving this according to those techniques as I will look elsewhere if it isn't.

                            Otherwise I am still keen on knowing the details about this...

                            I am also posting kemingmatters suggestion on the text issue below. This is what I mentioned last time as working almost 99% satisfactory in case anybody wanted to know/see. Only the vertical lines where fixed in this example as to be even and aligned and as one can see the outcome ended up quite well.





                            Awaiting some reply on the before mentioned question...
                            Last edited by Andy1975; 05-16-2012, 03:20 PM.
                            Relax, there is enough stress for everyone!

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by kemingMatters View Post
                              make a compound path of the "ridge" and *cringe* use the bevel/emboss photoshop effect if you're going for speed over quality. Just make sure your raster effects are set to a suitable DPI.
                              This is as close to tutorial you'll get from me on this,

                              1) draw a rounded rectangle (fill colour whatever you want, no stroke) (rectangle 1).
                              2) copy the rounded rectangle and paste behind (rectangle 2).
                              3) paste in front another copy of the rounded rectangle (rectangle 3).
                              4) select rectangle 3 with the selection tool, resize to where you want the inside edge of the ridge to stop.
                              5) select rectangles 1 & 3, make a compound path (ridge).
                              6) Bevel/Emboss ridge. Does it look ridgy?
                              Design is not decoration.

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