Online education is only gonna teach you the theory and the history. Without peer review, the critiques classes aren't worth the effort or the money. I noticed that the Thompson classes require a PC with any number of Windoze operating systems. Kinda odd for graphic design, not that it matters, but it will if you have a Mac with software already.

Some here consider school to be a waste of money. I think a few courses in theory and history are necessary but unless you are looking at a 'well rounded' approach, why the others in GenEd?

Neither one of these courses is gonna get you the practical experience you will need to get a job. While you are taking courses, get yourself a production job in a print shop, lab, or sign shop. If we sound like a broken record here, it's because we can't stress enough that this field is murderous to break into and schools are NOT teaching the latest prepress skills you need to keep a design job running smoothly. Graphic design is about 25% design, 25% prepress skills, 25% accounting, and 25% marketing.
Good luck.

PrintDriver is a grande format digital print dude (bigger than a proofer, LOL). His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

I agree with everything PD has said...100%.


If you are in Valdosta still, why not consider taking classes there at Valdosta Technical Institute? I WOULD have, had the technical college offered back then the things they offer now. My dad does business out at ValTech and frequents their printing classrooms so he can tell me what kinda set ups they have. They are well equipped and one of the very few places I have seen that have a printing and prepress enviroment. You should deifnately check them out.

Here are a few links ok:
Diploma program - Printing & Graphics Technology

TCC Programs - Basic Publication Design

Advanced Publication design www.valdostatech.edu/academics/tcc/adv_pub_design.asp

Web Design - www.valdostatech.edu/academics/diploma/web_desig.asp


They actually have alot of courses dealing with design, and printing and press operation, pre-flighting, photo manipulation etc. You will see if you look into their courses. I think that if you can't leave town, that Valdosta Tech is an option you should look into and consider. You NEED that classroom enviroment.....100% and this will be far less expensive than if you were to go to a Private college online and you can of course still obtain financial aid. Plus you will be getting printing and prepress experience which is also VERY important. Like PD said we don't want to sound like a broken record but you need the thoughts and opinions of your classmates and you need to see their work as well I think. So, if you hadn't thought about it before, ValTech is a great option to consider...in the past 10 years they have really built up that school and what it offers.

Just my .02 cents..hope that helps some!

)

Boobie Island or Bust!

Post Edited (D-Zine) : 11/11/2004 2:02:20 PM GMT

read this

www.graphicdesignforum.com/default.aspx?f=8&m=87096

spend your time doing this first

'I will become the most powerful Jedi ever!'
'I'm the damn designer, bitches!'

Check out my indie comic book!
www.assassinsguild.net/

Thanks PD and D-Zine. I'll check out your link Defjoe. I'm glad to see someone interested in helping me. I must agree with what you guys are saying. D-Zine, yes, I have toured Val tech and I'm aware of he many design classes they offer. (my mom just recommended that I take marketing from Val Tech.) Anyway the reason why I not feeling Val Tech is because they don't offer any degrees in their design programs (that I know of), whether it's AutoCAD or GD. I hear you loud and clear about the classroom experience, butI didn't mention that I was home schooled all 12 years of my life with my sister being my only classmate, and I graduated HS with a 3.4 GPA? In other words I'm used to studying alone - it's all I know! I've never been to a public school in my life. PD you mentioned aquiring skills to get a job, which is coole, but for the most part I plan to be self-employed- excuse me everyone, I have alot more to say and ask, but I've gotta run and get my haircut, I'll be back soon though.

Ok..several things here I am thinking... )

I remembered that you were home schooled but this type of education (GD) is far far different from just studying, and I think everyone here will agree with me on that. This is hands on work in school and out. I can't stress enough how useful and important a classroom enviroment in this field is IF you intend to go to school for this. You need to be able to have your professors working with you and you need to be interacting with your classmates and bouncing designs off of one another...you need those in class critiques to help you progress in your field.

The Diploma / Degree issue...really isn't an issue. You don't NEED a degree to be successful in graphic design. There are tons of members on this board that don't have a degree and are incredibly succesful. What is going to help you get a job in the end is your portfolio...that is what the employers really care about - your portfolio and your experience.

In my opinion, taking online courses doesn't give you what you need in this field which is interaction. If you are not working close with your classmates and bouncing ideas off one another and hearing other GDers thoughts on your pieces of work then you can't possibly create that tough skin that you definately need in this field to survive. There is alotta rejection in this field...but being in that classroom enviroment and having discussions over one anothers pieces helps you learn how to handle that critisism and how to work in a design team enviroment which you WILL have to do once you get out into the field.

My thoughts on Val Tech weren't focused on the 'degree' but the fact that it is one of the few places I have seen that offer courses AND degree/diplomas/certificates in graphic design, web design and printing & prepress (a necessity in this field) plus you can also get an internship through them, so they could hook you up with a print shop in town and that experience would be the best you could get. You could get several diplomas and certificates and have much much more experience from that then actually getting a degree from a college. I am just trying to point out that the actual degree really isn't that important at all. Its what all you learn and what skills you come out with.

Just some things to think about k )

Boobie Island or Bust!

As for being in business for yourself, read my breakdown of the job. It ain't all rosey design. Lot of hoofing.
If you don't plan on trying to get hired into an agency then 40K for a piece of paper is too much.
Yes, there are places that look for the degree but not all and many will just look at your book.
As for acquiring prepress skills, you can't have enough of them. Everyone in this business will tell you they are still learning and new software and print materials present new challenges daily.

PrintDriver is a grande format digital print dude (bigger than a proofer, LOL). His advice/opinions may not apply to the 4color/offset/web world of printing

Alright D-Zine. you're saying that interaction is the key, and you're not the only one that's told me that. The professor in GD at SCAD told me the same thing, but he also said that going online was not a bad idea even though on-campus is better. I believe that this is true, but throughout my years of home schooling that's what people kept telling us, interaction, socialization you can't succeed without it, but obviously they were wrong about that because my sis and I both have had succes without having classmates-I already mentioned what I did, butmy sistercould've entered college when she was in8th grade butchosenot to. HS school work is so easy for her thatshe's taking 11 subjects per yer just to stay busy.Now people who told us it couldn't happen can't say anything. (ok sorry for the rambling) However, I've heard it all too much that interaction is needed in these fields of art and design, and it must be fact. But if on-line was so bad why would it exist and why would they have people paying this type of money for it? Back to D-Zine's last post. Are you saying that I would be better off going to Val Tech and earning a diploma than trying these online degreeprograms? You think I would learn more and have more skill? Let me know this is a big decison for me and my parents, and the art institute has bent over backwards in helping me get set up.

All of my posts are simply based on my opinion of course..just the way that I think and view your situation. Online classes for design is much more different than home schooling for grade school and HS. The interaction is to help you with your skills and get the crits you need from others...and prepare you. I notice that one thing you are stressing is the word 'Degree'. Is there a reason why? I am just curious )

I think that physically joining in during your art & design classes is very important for feedback, bouncing ideas, helps you learn constructive critisism, you get to work in that design team enviroment - these things I think are important bc you need to prepare as much as possible for the real world - but this is solely my opinion. I just wanted to show you other options instead of AI and that other place. They offer the online courses - baiscally to get money I think bc they know ppl will take them who live elsewhere. I can't see it benifiting like you would if you were actually there. If it were just math, or even Art history I could see it, definately...but not the actual production courses. I could be wrong - but this is again just my opinion.

I guess my main thing is :Who is going to crit your work that you do...other than your teacher when you submit it online? Is your class? No bc they really can't. Are you going to get to see their works in progress and crit their stuff, no because you can't - I just think that is really very important in the learning process. If you are going to pay what the ones that physically sit in the classroom pay, then you should get the same out if it as they do...but you can't. Does that make sense? So..SCAD and the AI offer more advanced design courses but something like Val Tech will make you rounded in design and printing. BUT if YOU think that online classes are the way for you to go...then that is what you should do. In your original post you said that you were getting an online degree bc that was really your only option....my post about Valdosta Tech was really just to let you know there are other options. That's all. I know you have put alot of time and thought into your decisions and you should definately do what you in your heart feel is the right thing. You know what you can and can not do...we are just here to state our thoughts and opinions to try to help you.

It really all comes down to what is most important to you and what you feel will be best for you.

To answer your question: I can't say what you would learn more from...I personally feel Val Tech would be better bc you would be getting the help and discussions with others that you will need. Thats my Opinion tho..please remember that. You learn quite a bit from other people...I know that I did and still am. PD also made a good point...that if you aren't going to try to get a job at an ad agency or a large corp or something then $40k is too much to pay. I agree. I spent about $100k at SCAD...I don't regret it AT ALL...but I could have gone somewhere for far less and learned just as much - its the actual work experience where the real learning begins.

I totally didn't mean to confuse you with any of this. I was just posting another option for you. You know what you want and need to do more than anyone. If you feel the online courses will work for you then go for it. If you feel they aren't working, then you can always transfer to another school also. You have many options. I hope I have helped you more than I have confused you (atleast I feel like I did - hope thats not the case!!!).

Good luck in your decisions and please keep us posted...since you are in my hometown I think its interesting to know what you are up to and how things are going )

[img]/emoticons/thumbsup.gif[/img]

Boobie Island or Bust!

Very clear D-Zine and I appreciate the honesty. I guess I was saying a degree simply because I thought you would learn more than choosing a diploma.Plus just in case I do need to aplly for a job, like at Monster.com, there are a ton of jobs, but they all keep barking " at least an associates degree is required". But you all are saying degree or not, it's not going to teach me all I NEED to know. I will look carefully at Val Tech's program outline and I'll let my parents read this thread, because we are (were) extremely close to sending all the application info to The Art Institute online, but if a degree is not necessary I don't see the point in getting one. About the Art Institute Online, yes they do have critique sessions and interaction with students and teachers - of course not in person, but online. an Individual who has been through this program told me it was very valuable that she ws able to critique and recieve criyique from her virtual classmates. That feature is not offered at Thompson Direct though. Okay put print and prepress aside for a moment, and let's just look at the GD course online from the Art Institute. Do they teach me enough about GD? I could do the online GD classes and still take the print classes at Val Tech. Thanks for the help so far everyone, and nice article Defjoe.

Also D-Zine, I just checked out Val Tech's course outlines, and I'm assuming for me to be well rounded in learning graphic design, I would have to take three or four of their courses right? Not that that's a problem, but they do not havejust one program solely dedicated to GD. I live only 25 mins from Val Tech so I may ride out there.

Yeah at Val Tech I think you would have to get several certificates or diplomas...

It's great that you were actually able to speak with someone who has taken the AI online courses...and they could give you some insight. Very valuable I think! You could also take the AI course load for the degree you want and take some printing classes at the Tech school on the side when you feel ready...if you wanted. You know what my main concern with the online courses is, but you have done your research with schools, that is obvious, and I think you should go with that you feel you can do. Again, you know yourself better than anyone! If you feel its right for you then go for it! ) I really didn't mean to be discouraging at all....was just opening other options.

I know that the AI is a great school....its up there with SCAD I know, bc I researched both before I went to SCAD. I am sure you will learn alot with them. It's true that no matter how much college you have you will never be 100% prepared for the real world...I guess that is true with any field. GD is such a hands on thing. I think if you are set on taking online courses that AI or SCAD (you know I always have to plug them - haha) are 100% your best bets.

I would just suggest that no matter which school you decide on, that you try to get into a local print shop for any kind of job there - even customer service. I know we preach alot about understanding the printing and prepress side of design but it is really important. Working even just 6 months in that area will teach you an amazing amount - things that you just don't learn in school...not to mention it gets your foot in the door which is realllly important. Not only important if you are looking for further employment, but also important bc you can network and meet people in the business and that can only help your freelance progress!

I think I took a real look into this thread bc you are from my hometown and its really kinda cool to try and help someone from back home getting into the field. You can tell me to shut up at anytime...LOL ;o) Let's face it - there are not a ton of ppl from Valdosta that you run into online when you live somewhere else...haha! So I hope I was able to help you some and not confusing at all....haha ;o) You live 25 min from Val Tech? What end of town do you live on? My dad lives in the neighborhood right before Cherry Creek Hills.....he just moved there a few months ago. You are about the distance from Val Tech that he is so that is whyI was asking )

Anyways.....good luck with your decisions! Keep us posted! This place is a great resource! I wish I had it when I was in college!

;o)

Boobie Island or Bust!

D-Zine throughouteach ofthe threads we've been posting in together, you have always been clear and understandable as with others here. I like the honesty and the will to help at this forum, because many of you all could simply ignore me orlook at meas an annoying kid, whois just a waste of everyone's time. However, you guys have experienced the process,learned from it, and then you're willing to tell the truth about it whether it's good or bad. What more could I ask for? (it's 11:53 pm and I just got an email from theAcademy of Art in San Fran!) anyway, I'm going give this situation some serious thought and prayer, and hopefully the right path for me will be made known. Whether it's going on-line completely, or mixing online and on-campus! Okay D-Zine, that multi-diploma thing doesn't look too good, plus I don't think either of them teach Adobe or Quark. However the print courses do look good. That's really great about your dad close to Cherry Creek, we've been through there manytimes to look at the fabulous houses (notice I said look at!) I liveabout4 miles from there. Cherry Creek and the neighborhoods in thatarea is about the best Valdosta will see when it comes to residential architecture. Have you visited Stone Creek right off of N.Valdosta Rd.? It's very nice!! ( If you are not from Valdostabut still reading this post, then you must be extremely bored!) I can't believe the lack of artistist inspiration in this city - it's a shame. What did you do to keep the interest? I gain alot of inspiration when I visit Atlanta, Orlando, or any place with 20th century design for that matter!Valdosta seems to be satisfied with the shape thatit's in Don't even get me started again on the prehistoric downtown! If the entire downtown would have been vacant with no people around on 9/11, I wouldn't have mindedthose two planes crashing here. At leastwe would've had to remodel. Butwho am Ito complain about Valdosta, guess what D-Zine? -brace yourself -they just opened a Best Buy here! ! Our first Best Buy. Can you believe it? watch out Atlanta,Valdosta will catch you - ( yeah, maybe in the year 99000). I'm out.

LOL @ Cherry Creek Hills. Actually my dad doesn't live IN Cherry Creek..he lives JUST BEFORE it...I think you misread my previous post on that! haa - we LOOK at those houses too but who can afford that stuff? NOT my family...hahaha!! He has a nie house a few streets from that on Starmount Dr.

A BEST BUY??? IN VALDOSTA?? OMG! I am coming to Valdosta tonight actually so tell me where best Buy is! I can't believe my dad hasn't mentioned it to me! Actually in the 12 years since I left home, Valdosta has grown so much...but I didn't start to appreciate it until I moved away (NOT saying I would leave Savannah to move back tho) but I enjoy the comforts of home. Once I get away from the stress of life and enter Valdosta I usually feel like a weight has been lifted off me bc when I am there its just to simply RELAX!!

So if you live about 4 min from Cherry Creek then you live on our end of town which is cool. I like that end of town. I was so glad when my dad bought his new house that it was still on that end of town! I still can't believe here is a best buy there! OMG! Ya'll actually had a Target LONG before we did in Savannah! Ours JUST opened in October! LOL!

Good luck with the AI and I am sure you will do great. If you can pick up some courses at Val Tech in printing and prepress I think that would be great for you.

Now - WHERE is that Best Buy??? [img]/emoticons/rofl.gif[/img]

Boobie Island or Bust!

I'm in aggreance (sp?) with everything DZ has said. just to give you another opinion.

'I will become the most powerful Jedi ever!'
'I'm the damn designer, bitches!'

Check out my indie comic book!
www.assassinsguild.net/