Print Finish questions

[pariahz]

Hi everyone,
New to the forum.
I am researching for a university project on print finishes and the more ornate methods like de/embossing, die cutting, foil stamping etc.

I have never had the opportunity to design something to be printed in these formats, If anybody has any experience working on projects to be printed specially like these i would appreciate if you could answer a few questions about your experience working on them.

How often do you get the oppertunity to work on projects where you can experiment with such printing methods? What type of work does is tend to be?

How much freedom was given to you as the designer to play or experiment with these methods? Did the client know what they want or was it left up to you?

What is the general process for designing something to be die cut or printed in one of these ways? Do you supply the design separately to your main design?

Does designing work to be printed in these formats prove more of a challenge to just designing something to be normally printed or for screen. Are there certain limitations to what what can be achieved.

How would you quote a price for a project like this are there any general rules to follow?

Thank you in advance.

[KitchWitch]

Hi pariahz and welcome to GDF!

We ask that all new members take a few minutes read through important threads here and here. These will explain our rules, answer frequently asked questions and explain some of the long running jokes you'll run into.

Enjoy your stay.

[PrintDriver]

You are laboring under the assumption that you get to 'experiment' with anything. Experimentation costs money.
Either the process is proper for the design intent or it isn't. Either the client can afford it or they can't. It doesn't look good for the designer when they design something that is so far outside a client's budget they can't afford it. No matter how nice it might look. This isn't just true in specialty printing but flows all through design. Knowing processes and materials, what works and what doesn't, approximate costs in the scheme of things, that's all part of the job.

When working in a process for the first time, you coordinate with your printer before you even begin designing. You find out how they want the die-line indicated, the foil areas, the varnish areas, the whatever, and you follow their specs. Printers have varying work flows. Not everyone will do things the same way.

The challenge of working with processes that aren't printed with inks is showing your client what their design will look like. You as the designer have to know that what you are going to do will come together in the end and look awesome.

Quoting for the design part is pretty standard. But if you don't know what the output charges are going to be, you are going to get bitten big time. Dies aren't cheap. Generally the more intricate they get, the more expensive they are.

I really do wish kids coming out of schools could have solid real world experiences before trying to do this stuff on their own. "Experimenting" and "playing" on a paying client's nickel is just plain wrong.

[Buda]

To quote for specialty print, it depends on if you are a print broker or just passing an amount on.

You call up your favourite printer, get a price, add a percentage for your time and then send it onto your client. You do not, under any circumstances, make up a price based on what you think it should cost and expect a printers to match your price.

But before you start offering specialty print design services, you should learn under someone who knows what they are doing or get real friendly with the prepress person at your printers.

Is this just a research/writing assignment or are you expected to output a real working sample for this assignment? Because specialty print is expensive and one off prints are generally not appreciated.

[hyperkill]

I've done pretty much everything when it comes to specialty print techniques, coatings, inks, etc.

Here's a piece I managed from inception to completion, printed, and did all outside finishing approvals on...

http://www.underconsideration.com/fp...rd-issue-5.php

Coverage plays a major role when doing techniques and is very important when pricing is considered. For instance, an embossing die that hits small copy is cheap compared to one that is sculptured and hits the whole cover of a book. Certain coatings, such as thermochromic, cost nearly $100/lb whereas your regular gloss UV coating is dirt cheap. Spot coating requires a photopolymer plate that costs around $550, which then has to be fit on press; this is a lot more laborious than typical overall coating where you just set it up and run it.

InDesign files should be provided with separate layers for the different techniques. During the quoting process you should have the coverage area of various techniques nailed down and be able to provide a low-res PDF to your printer of choice.

Not all printers do the techniques in-house. For instance, the book linked above had everything from flocking to laser diecutting. We, as the printer, already had reliable sources to get this work done and went to each location to approve and make sure it had good quality. One thing you do NOT want to get involved in is sourcing all of these techniques yourself. You want the printer to maintain open communication with all vendors to ensure the proper materials are being used for each process. Yes, we do mark up the finishing techniques we source, but we have to - there are customer service reps we have working for us that have to manage the job correctly, things to pickup/deliver, QC staff to send out to approve, etc. that aren't free.

Let me know if you have any additional questions on any specific techniques as I have literally done every wacky thing you can imagine.

For you printers out there wondering about the book linked, it was 24 forms on press with many having at least 3 passes and some up to 5. We ran every coating on press aside from the scratch-and-sniff which was silk screened. We have pretty much every anilox you can imagine (from 10 BCM to 70 BCM). Book has everything from inline glitter and coatings that switch color to sand paper feel. The lenticular piece was modeled/animated in our 3D studio and the software then shot 16 different frames. We interlaced them and printed on top of a 75 LPI lens, which created both animation and 3D appearance. Gold Ink Award winning piece as well.

[pariahz]

Thank you very much for your reply. amazing looking book by the way

[Brie]

That book is pretty impressive. That is all.

[hyperkill]

Thanks for the comments on the book. It is definitely the best piece I ever worked on.

[hyperkill]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYuk64NMYLM

This is another piece I worked on that goes way beyond specialty printing techniques

[<b>]

Originally Posted by hyperkill

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aYuk64NMYLM

This is another piece I worked on that goes way beyond specialty printing techniques

Very nice! Excellent!

A little hard to control the registration, maybe, but a fantastic idea. How were the sheets of paper kept from blowing all over the place as the car ran over them? I'd love to get hold of one of those pieces!