Go Back   Graphic Design Forum > Graphic Design > General

General General Design Topics-No work requests in this forum, and no FREE requests or CONTESTS anywhere on this forum!!!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-11-2012, 01:49 AM   #51
Roth
Senior Member
 
Roth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,322
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob View Post
That's an interesting point. Graphic design tends to be a bit of a refuge camp for skilled introverts. Skillful, powerful solutions created by shy introverts don't stand a chance online against mediocrity wielded by well-connected charismatics.
It's girls and high school all over again.
Roth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2012, 01:51 AM   #52
Gromit801
They want WHAT???!!!
 
Gromit801's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Redneck Hell, CA
Posts: 1,767
Try crowd sourcing a law firm, lol.
__________________
"I love deadlines. I love the 'whooshing' sound they make when they go by." - Doug Adams
LinkedIn
Gromit801 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2012, 02:34 AM   #53
tZ
Banned
 
tZ's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: GA
Posts: 5,892
There needs to be a site that crowd-sources hookers. Now that is an idea…
tZ is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2012, 06:31 AM   #54
jessica21
Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 74
Thanks for the valuable feedback! I am getting a lot of interesting things to think about. My boyfriend has read the replies and has crafted the following argument. Please consider this is not my opinion, but his. (And I did mention to him that many of us from what I have read are against unpaid internships):

Well lucky for you Print Driver, would you like to explain your point to all the Former Caterpillar employees that were laid off because of market conditions and a lost contract? If what you say is true then there would not be such a high flop rate for start-up design firms or are you just stating that there we have a monopoly and Trust issues again where very few powers control the top which allow for no new entries.... Oh wait, Boston Dynamic proved that wrong and so did the inventors of the SAW. Design firms especially ones who are owned by business partners bet the farm and they risk losing but sometimes they win and upset the balance. I am happy for you that your position is not threatened by one bad bid but that is not the case for the majority of pitch based fields, especially the small firms that less than 20 employees. I work for an Openbravo partner (ERP/SAP) it's only a company of about 16 or so. Every bid we place needs to be spot on or we will need to cut developers and interns.

Pre-qualified system is one that refers to Sergeant & Lundy or Lockheed Martin or Northrop Grumman, not the small engineering firms that struggle to get a footing. A lot of engineers are part of consultant groups that get paid based on bids won, if the company does not bring in any money then there is no way to pay.

If you want barriers to entry in a field you need objective and quantifiable units of measure.... That is not something that is included in an art degree. If you are saying that anyone can just get a cracked copy of photo shop and be able to win these contests, then I think you are the ones that are undercutting your own field.... What you have just said is "I cannot compete with new entries who have no experience even though I have a 4 year degree and worked in the field for X years" That means you're out-of-date and out of touch, clamoring to grasp onto a fading reality as a new one consumes then discards you.

"a cracked version of Photoshop that's lifting an existing logo or illustration from the internet, changing it a little bit and making a whiz-bang low resolution piece of crap out if it, while calling it a logo." This statement does not fit with the entries that I have seen on [croudsourcing site], they are amazing. I feel like I can go there and get a quality design that I would not be able to create myself. There are rules and a code of conduct that filters out the unoriginal and bad entries.

Here is a counter idea: if the competition is so bad then why can't you beat them with higher quality designs?
You complain about the compensation... Graphic design runs in a market like every other industry- if the supply is high then the price is low, so the only way to make the price go high is to increase the demand.... (not likely since there are 22.5 million companies in the US already, http://www.census.gov/econ/susb/) or the supply needs to go down. So take your ball and leave the game that way the remaining can charge more. But once prices go up, then more suppliers enter the market. So get used to the low prices.

Let's look that the economics
*contest site link removed*

I have randomly picked designs that I like. Each contest has entries ranging from 14 to 288, yet only one won.

Member for a week, entered 7 times and won once.
Member for 2 years, entered 184 times and won 11 times.
Member for 2 months, entered 94 times and won 8 times.
Member for 1 month, entered 544 times and won 111 times.
Member for 1 year and 1 month, entered 222 times and 8 wins.
Member for 3 weeks, entered 90 times, and 6 wins.
member for 3 years, entered 101 times and 7 wins.


The average number of designers is 109 per contest.
$484,554 for this month and 1,551 contest so about $312 a contest.

The average number of entries per competition per user is 3.
The BIGGEST THING that strikes me as odd, and personally I find to be the most laughable is graphic designers will take an unpaid internship(s) working 20 or more hours a week and hand over copyrights for free. Or maybe they will get a cup of coffee and a bagel. But when there is an opportunity to show off you skills and possible get paid, (yes REAL money for your work) you get insulted, and you feel entitled to more.

You look at unpaid internship and you see it as an opportunity to build your portfolio and networking. You have to commute and meet people, what a hassle for being paid nothing... This is a simple and easy way for you to practice your craft, build your portfolio with a chance of making money. Not to mention you can score a consulting gig out of it, because some companies hire from the site.

Last edited by garricks; 05-11-2012 at 05:24 PM.. Reason: to remove contest site.
jessica21 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2012, 10:17 AM   #55
Roth
Senior Member
 
Roth's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,322
Oh, look at you, with your research and your half baked ideas. Adorable.

Last edited by Roth; 05-11-2012 at 10:34 AM..
Roth is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2012, 10:19 AM   #56
PanToshi
Blunt Dullard
 
PanToshi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2008
Posts: 4,728
I love how the sites advertising numbers are the extent of his 'research. I love even more how he 'feels' the logos are amazing, so that must mean they are not stolen! Besides, there are rules.
__________________
- The sketching process not only helps you to come up with good ideas, it also helps you to get past bad ones.

Last edited by PanToshi; 05-11-2012 at 10:41 AM..
PanToshi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2012, 11:14 AM   #57
PrintDriver
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 30,605
Moderator cleanup crew will be along shortly to remove your advertising links...

I don't particularly care if you exploit the crowdsourcers. They are supposedly adults (if they aren't they are (usually) violating the contract terms). Long ago I'd learned to ignore that segment of the industry and do not feel threatened by them. I just don't like someone spewing mis-informed arguments to try to justify their own use of the system, especially one thinly veiled as a charity.

A company can be judged by the company they keep.
You are just one of many out there that have found a quick way to make a buck.
Good for you.
PrintDriver is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2012, 11:39 AM   #58
Bob
Formerly the latter
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Between cracks
Posts: 11,665
We need to come up with a way to crowdsource crowdsourcing services.
Bob is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2012, 11:49 AM   #59
garricks
Head Chee of Derpistan
 
garricks's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: St. Louis City, Missouri
Posts: 36,912
Quote:
Originally Posted by PrintDriver View Post
Moderator cleanup crew will be along shortly to remove your advertising links...
As sure as the sun rises in the east.

Post that link again and there will be consequences.
__________________
This post is brought to you by the letter E and the number 9. Those are the buttons I push to get a Twix out of the candy machine.
"I put my heart and my soul into my work, and have lost my mind in the process."
garricks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-11-2012, 12:52 PM   #60
Sketcher
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Posts: 1,880
Quote:
Originally Posted by jessica21 View Post
"a cracked version of Photoshop that's lifting an existing logo or illustration from the internet, changing it a little bit and making a whiz-bang low resolution piece of crap out if it, while calling it a logo." This statement does not fit with the entries that I have seen on [croudsourcing site], they are amazing. I feel like I can go there and get a quality design that I would not be able to create myself.
Tell your boyfriend that he obviously does not know what makes a good logo. I've seen the entries these crowdsourcing sites and while they look cool and pretty, most of them would not work in real world production applications. Those clients are going to be really unhappy when they get a call from the printer telling them their "awesome looking design" cannot be printed the way they want. We've even had clients come on this forum complaining about a design they got from a crowdsourcing site that was rejected by printers.

To the untrained eye, those logos on those sites may look great, but aesthetics is not what makes a logo good. Real designers know this. Clients who crowdsource, and people like your boyfriend, don't.

Last edited by garricks; 05-11-2012 at 05:25 PM..
Sketcher is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 06:25 AM.




GRAPHICS.COM NEWSLETTER
The weekly Graphics.com newsletter is a great way to stay up to date on what's new on the site and in the world of graphics. Subscribe »

JOB LISTINGS
Featured Listings
Art Director
Hanley Wood
Washington, DC
Designer
Environmental Defense Fund
New York, NY
Presentation Designer
Refinery29
New York, NY
Lead Artist (m/f)
GameDuell
Berlin, Germany

See all other great design jobs on our Job Board

Post a risk-free
job listing for $279


WebMediaBrands
Mediabistro | All Creative World | Inside Network
Jobs | Education | Research | Events | News
Advertise | Terms of Use | Privacy Policy
Copyright 2011 WebMediaBrands Inc. All rights reserved.
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2013, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.