Programmatic logo design...

I’d like to say: Thanks again! I bought and have enjoyed them both. My ideas evolved as I looked at my programming problem from the perspective of a logo designer… and now have a bunch of experiments I want to try out. I am particularly drawn to the idea of letters/words as a basis - then drawing influence from liberally-licenced open source fonts… transformed to SVG paths. I intend to experiment with programmatic morphologies (and perhaps other transforms) so (without any artistic talent) I might be able to arrive at interesting information-dense (amateur) logo designs. I definitely intend to go the SVG-first route… I don’t have Adobe Illustrator skills. :slight_smile:

The next stage of my mad plan might be to implement some sort of feedback loop - so I can evolve some logos, by tweaking parameters, using statistical analysis of some proxy for measuring efficacy… that I’ll have to dream-up, somehow. Perhaps ‘click-through’ analysis or putting them into some sort of game… so I can crowd source market research about logos - without anyone noticing that’s why the game is free.

All I am left thinking after this long thread and your headlong intent to pursue your Sisyphean task, is that you have entirely missed the point of what a logo is in a wider sense.

Logos are not about aesthetically pleasing outcomes – although, of course, aesthetics is a part of it. It feels like the whole premise is flawed and you can never achieve what you want to achieve, only what you think you want to achieve. Ultimately, the missing ingredients will be creativity and intuition, so you’ll be left with something pretty but ineffective, which is the same problem being caused in the industry now by the armies of uneducated, but alacritous.

This is so much the case that I am handing over what I think will be my last ever branding job. Expectation and understanding is in the toilet and I fear software that follows the Canva kids rout will only drive this further down.

It feels very much like trying to write a piece of software that creates a new pastoral symphony. You may get the notes in a pleasing order with effective timing, but it won’t make you cry. You need to add Beethoven into the mix for that.

Try and understand what brand design actually is before creating software that can generate a component part of it without understanding the whole.

Good luck.

Like others have touched on already

Pros
Algorithms excel at generating geometric patterns, symmetrical designs, and mathematical curves, all of which can technically create visually striking logos.

Programmatically generated logos could push the boundaries of traditional design, creating styles that are difficult or impossible to achieve manually.

This could appeal to tech-forward brands or projects where the process of creation is part of the story.

An SVG-based approach is highly scalable, and with clever scripting, you could generate variations of a logo for different contexts (e.g., responsive design for web vs. print).

Automating repetitive tasks like generating multiple variations, applying constraints, or experimenting with forms can save a lot of time.


Technical Challenges and Limitations

SVG, Python libraries like Matplotlib, and similar tools primarily operate in RGB, but print workflows require CMYK or spot colors.

Converting RGB designs to CMYK can lead to unexpected colour shifts, especially with vibrant hues. You’d need post-processing tools (like Adobe Illustrator) to handle colour adjustments for print.

Programmatic approaches might struggle with nuanced typography, spacing, kerning, and adjustments that human designers fine-tune for logos.

Libraries like Pango (for Python) or PangoCairo might help but won’t match human judgment.

Algorithms can generate interesting patterns, but might not capture the subtleties of what makes a logo “fit” a brand’s identity. Design principles like balance, contrast, and emotional resonance often require a designer’s intuition.

SVG is a fantastic starting point, but most clients or workflows require additional formats like EPS, AI, or raster files in various resolutions (e.g., PNG, JPEG). Automating these outputs is possible but adds complexity.

Good logos must work in various contexts; small sizes, grayscale, or reversed out on dark backgrounds. Ensuring your programmatic designs are versatile may require additional testing and refinement.


Ethics:

As others pointed out, a major part of professional logo design involves working closely with clients to understand their brand and vision. This process is hard to replicate programmatically.

While your approach is innovative, it may only appeal to a narrow audience. Traditional clients often prefer the hands-on expertise of a designer who can interpret their needs in a highly personal way.

That Being Said…
There’s real potential here for projects where the process itself is as important as the output.

For example

Tech companies might appreciate a logo generated via a unique algorithm as part of their brand story.

Dynamic or generative branding could be an avenue, where logos evolve based on data or parameters (e.g., time of day, user input).

If you decide to pursue this, you might also find inspiration in Processing or p5.js for generative art or explore Adobe’s ExtendScript for automating aspects of traditional design software. Python libraries like Cairo, Pillow, or Manim could also give you powerful tools for experimentation.

This feels like a very long journey especially for someone with your technical background.

I do think you need the helping hand of a print designer/professional logo designer to help fine-tune everything, from fonts, kerning, colour variations, etc.

There is no single button to create great designs, if there was we’d out of a job.

At the moment, not even AI can replicate human ingenuity and design techniques.
We’re not there yet.

I can’t wait to have a button that says ‘Completel Design’ and I can walk into the sunset holding wads of cash.

I accept that the premise might be flawed… I’ve already substantially transformed my objective and slightly amended my approach. I’m amused that you distinguish between what you think I want to achieve and what you think I think I want to achieve. There’s an amusing recursion in there somewhere - perhaps we can make an icon to express it’s abstract structure?

This is a very good analogy - but I think you misunderstand it. Have you never thought what Beethoven might have produced… if he had a modern recording studio? Today, I have a lot of advantages - not only do I have much more history to inform me… but I can automate things far more easily than ever before.

I’m probably the biggest critic of ‘AI’ you will ever meet… however, I am certain that it is easier to implement a generative approach, that evolves a composition (seeded by the best known examples in its class) to achieve a spectacularly emotional result. If music can make one cry - I assure you, music composed with the aid of modern digital techniques can also make one cry. While examples, today, might be thin on the ground… I assure you, in due course, they will seem mundane… within the lifetime of some who are alive today.

Perhaps.

My objective is to push boundaries, to use a non-controversial approach and see what I can achieve. I’ve no second-party client - so the branding I’m trying to create only has myself as stakeholder. I’m most interested in logos that could make sense in the context of a “technology-forward” brand… I think (if I understand that phrase. The details are yet to be invented. Rather unconventionally - I might let the brand be influenced by the logo - rather than vice-versa. Perhaps a new tech company could spin-off as a consequence. :slight_smile:

I’m keen on SVG - and while I’m a fan of Matplotlib for data-science, I’m not mad enough to try to draw logos with it. Stuff like pango might yield interesting inspiration… though I suspect its features aren’t what I need the most. Similarly, p5.js looks cool - but probably not for me. What makes this easier, is that I really am my own client… and I won’t have a budget for this work… unless it becomes successful… so I’m having a go. For me, on-screen is the critical one… thereafter, branded merchandise… it’d be great if it could be stitched (but I’m getting well ahead of myself here!) I’m aware of the theory behind on-screen and in-print colour… from my implement-graphics-software days. I’m sure I can sort out CMYK/RGB gamuts (even if I have to refer to my beautiful old books to remember some of the details).

I’ve been on the same page, when you mention logos that evolve based on data or parameters. That’s a very interesting, related, idea. I love the idea that the logo would be sufficiently robust that it would remain easily recognisable in a variety of forms - allowing one to encode some additional message in the logo. Perhaps one could have a logo that is never identical twice… changing every second… or unique each time it is transmuted? Definitely a fun idea… though I do wonder how well that would jive with trademark registration.

On fonts/kerning, for my sins, over 25 years ago, I was immersed in TeX and Meta font - so I know how important issues like kerning can be. I was dabbling with this back when TrueType outline fonts were considered novel. I also think I’ve got the (maths) theory behind colour representations down pat… but… this doesn’t suggest I’ve got a good eye. I suppose, many other decision makers also don’t - so, maybe I can wing that bit. Curiously, it was around the same time I first tried to use Adobe Illustrator… I sucked at using it.

As for a single button to create great designs… I’m not expecting great design to emerge, on command, by magic with what I plan to do. While I’m no graphic artist, I appreciate and create abstract structures… and I sometimes see them in software (the source code - the bit that looks like maths). I suspect writing great software is comparable in difficulty to creating great logos. Most of the time, capturing the requirement is the greatest challenge in the world of software too.

That said… I suspect that it might be possible, in principle, to implement a sophisticated “evolutionary algorithm” (see Wikipedia) that could beat a graphic artist. The edge that the algorithm could have, over the graphic artist, is that the algorithm could test trillions of variations - if it could harness all 8 billion people on earth to do nothing other than provide feedback.

I’m now imagining a logo- designing AI that runs amok - like with the Paper-clip maximizer.

Well now, this was informative!
My wife was a certified chef. She went through years of training, worked at major restaurants and resorts. When she passed 2 years ago, I found her cookbooks and I thought I could create the same dishes because I had the books. What a mistake. I can throw all the stuff together but it never turned out the same and never will.
So to come into a graphic DESIGN forum and tout your programming skills didn’t work out so well, did it? Graphic design is a skill and a lost art. Just like sheet fed offset printing. To run a 6 color printing press with soft touch or UV coating is an ART, a lost art. You will get more acceptance in a programmers forum than a graphic design form.
My 3¢ worth.

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