Shillington Education - worth the 7k?

#13

I’ve never lived in NYC, but of the eight or nine design jobs I’ve had over the past 40 years here in Utah, all but one required a bachelor’s degree — the last one asked for a master’s. In my previous four jobs, where I was either in charge of design, creative, or communications, we never interviewed anyone who didn’t have a relevant 4-year degree. HR automatically culled them from the list before we saw their portfolios.

Your experience has seemingly been different. I’m not arguing — just saying that not all our experiences are identical, making generalized advice problematic.

I will say, though, that with the cost of today’s 4-year degrees, student debt, far-less-than-certain job prospects, and meager salaries for beginning- and mid-level designers, I’m not sure that this field is a practical bet any longer — with or without a degree.

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#14

My own personal experience:

I spent 2.5 years out of school as a screenprinter.

I then decided I wanted to learn the graphic design side of it, at least the part where you created artwork, and then output film, created the screen and handed it over to the screenprinter.

The opportunity lacked for me where I was. And I was in a good paid job as a screenprinter. But it wasn’t good enough for me, I wanted more.

I found a course run by our Government, here in Ireland, it used to be called FÁS (pronounced f-auce (like sauce with an f)). It has since been dissolved.

The Government run course offered a chance to do a 6-month course - but they paid you! I got paid to learn, it was like a 6-month full time job.

On the back of this introductory course I was able to build a small portfolio and apply for jobs as an Apprentice (or the more modern term is probably an Intern).

Actually, what happened was I got a job as a prepress operator first, in a printing place that had both litho and screen printing - it was a small place. But I was in the office where I wanted to be - working on artwork, producing plates for litho, and producing artwork for the screen printers.

It was great, it was where I wanted to be.

But I got a phone call about a month in - and a printing company I had applied for asked if I was interested in an Apprenticeship (intern).

Initially, I turned it down. I explained I already had taken employment and wasn’t interested. I went back to my desk and about an hour went by and I wasn’t comfortable at all. I called back to the company and asked to speak to the person who called and asked if there was a chance I could still come for the interview.

Luckily, he agreed.

In Ireland, an Apprenticeship is taken very seriously. It’s a Government run scheme.

The job I had gotten as an apprentice was off the back of a 6 month course - learning Quark, Illustrator and Photoshop.

I was no expert. But my portfolio was good enough, it showed basic skills in keylines, imposition, design, photoshop manipulation, illustration, photography etc.

Back to the Apprenticeship.
The Government run scheme of Apprenticeships was great, ok the pay was very low at the start. But it also involved 6 months in work - then 6 months scheduled full time in College.

I went to a college called DIT Bolton Street. And this was over 4 years, where I spent 6 months in work, 6 months in college - on and off for the 4 years.

This gave me the best of both worlds. On the job training and also college learning.

To be completely honest, I felt the College side of it was absolutely shit!
I learned so much more on the job. The people I was in college with were not interested. Nobody paid attention. Out of 10 of us in the class at the end of the 4 years I was on the only one that passed.

I was the only one interested.

I did feel the college portion of it was useless. I learned so much more working in the field. I was working with experienced typesetters, designers, prepress operators, proofreaders, printers, manual impositions (before computers), and all that amazing stuff.

The printing shop was a wonderland to me, machines clanking, busy, mechanical processes, it was amazing.

College - BORING!

Will anyone have the same experience as me - probably not.

Here’s my advice.
Get experience in learning the basics

On the left of the below site select your country
For example - Adobe is the leading industry standard for a lot of design work.
But it really depends on what you want to do as a designer.

And find an Accredited Learning Partner.

Another great resource - if you do find a course you’re doing find out what software they are using - and brush up on the basics so that you don’t find it a struggle when it comes to learning the material and get bogged down in using the software.
https://www.lynda.com/

The Lynda.com site is very good - there’s more than just learning the software. They offer courses in Logo design, colour theory, etc.

And if you can prove it - you can get the Creative Cloud for cheaper if you’re a student.
Adobe Creative Cloud for students and teachers | Adobe Creative Cloud!!g!!adobe%20teacher%20student%20edition&gclid=Cj0KCQjw7pKFBhDUARIsAFUoMDbN6Uds0rQwaiUGAmQjf480QhEENZrrbBgTr3XOxIyxVH92w4HvF4caAlTsEALw_wcB

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#15

I spent ten years living and working in London. No one ever asked about my degree, which irked me at first, until someone pointed out that I’d have never even got through the door without it.

Ultimately, whether you do as I and others have, and go the degree route, or learn via industry, there are no short cuts. As Just-B says, It takes time. I’d never hire anyone with just a three month course and no industry experience. Too big a risk, when there are plenty of talented people out there with good degrees.

Even if someone has a great looking portfolio, three months is not enough to learn what you need to in order to work, professionally. Even three years is not enough!

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#16

This …

#17

Thank you for your input. I am speaking from my personal experience as a designer of 10 years.
I have worked in NYC, Hong Kong, Melbourne, and Sydney and I worked at advertising at first and that’s the only time HR asked for proof of my degrees.

And I have hired my own students, and some of the Shillington graduates got a job in Buck / Design Studio / Re/ For the people and other agencies alike. I am not trying to discredit your experience and 4 years bachelor’s degree, I am only saying that the industry is changing rapidly. And a traditional art school education is probably not for everyone.

People have come out of art schools and not ready for the industry ( I was one of them), and Shillington has a very practical approach to design education. Of course, it is also up to the students to go train their own thinking, getting your design/ art history knowledge on your own.

It is also saying a lot that some of my students did graduate from 4-year traditional art schools, but then couldn’t find a good job, so they come to Shillington to upskill and expand their folio.

I am not trying to sell anything to anyone, I just want to offer my experience as an insider from both a traditional art school and Shillington.

#18

I agree, it is only my personal experience, but I just want to tell the OP that from my experience a bachelor degree is not necessary to secure a design job.

Studying design and art has been super expensive, but I am personally really happy that we are getting more opportunities to work as a designer without the expensive art schools. I am a firm believer that high education is not a solid ticket to financial security. And not everyone needs University. Even though it worked for me .

Personally I didn’t get into design just for making money, it wasn’t a financial decision for me. But I love my job and can make a decent living with it. I got to traveled a lot and still work around the world. Not many other professions allow you do to that. I got to help my clients creating their business. I personally wouldn’t switch to another more financially secured job :slight_smile:

#19

Of course my personal experience is a few years old now and the industry is changing. There are a lot more under-qualified, under-experienced people calling themselves designers without having done any of the hard yards, which is why I would be wary of hiring anyone with so little experience, be it educational, or practical.

Likewise, not to decry your experience – and after all, that’s all any of us ever has, which is why this place is so good, to get a cross-section of different experiences – but, naturally you are going to be championing something that you are part of, otherwise you wouldn’t be part of it. All, I can say, is I would be very unlikely to hire someone with so little experience – unless I didn’t have time to make my own tea. They would need a lot more experience and knowledge before I would let them anywhere near any clients.

All that said, from what I can see from the site, it looks a whole lot better than many other non-accredited university courses out there, in terms of calibre of work – and certainly, a lot better than, ‘I’m a pro designer and I learned everything I know from YouTube.’ I have to agree, some of the work does look far more polished than some I’ve seen with a degree.

I maintain, though, that three months is just not enough time. Still, I’d more look at a portfolio that looked like this, than many I’ve seen.

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#20

I wouldn’t drop 7k on an education. Not a chance.

I’d be advocating for industry placement with a commitment to offsite study and courses paid for in part or full by the employer.

All being fine in my part of the world but other corners of the globe it is different.

Nobody expect someone new to the industry to hit the ground running.

I’ve hired art students based on their portfolio only to find out their portfolio was a 4 year project… And posters, brochures had a 4 year time scale.

I wouldn’t have the time for someone to spend 4 hours on a poster let alone days, let alone weeks, let alone years.

I’ve had people hired to my care who couldn’t even create a text frame. I had another who was hired having a fashion degree. Nothing to do with anything.

Point is look for an employer who will back you.
You can get a job on the back of a nice portfolio, and if you some sort of course whether it’s a year or 6 months or 3 months, it shows the ability to learn digest, pass, succeed in learning.

That’s what I look for.

I’d be far more impressed with someone who produced portfolio pieces in 3 months than someone who spent 4 years creating them and the portfolio.

I have only ever been impressed with one college graduate that I worked with for two years and the passion was insane, the skill level was through the roof. She left for a top design agency and I just said best of luck, she was far too good for what we were doing.

One, in 25 years. Its hard to believe.

My criteria for a new hire fresh out of the gates is aptitude, attitude, and passion.

Everything else they can learn as it progresses.

Find an employer who backs you, backs your college ambitions and backs you financially for courses and education.

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#21

Considering the OP, Oli, posted this post in 2018, I imagine they have either graduated or moved on in their life decisions.
I’m sure that 7k is probably more like 14k now too.

#22

Well people are still finding the thread and reading and replying - so information is still useful :slight_smile:

#23

It was dredged up by someone with a stake in Shillington…

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#24

Okay, but without it on your resume, would you have been interviewed? Nope.

#25

I don’t mind people reactivating old topics when the subjects are still relevant and of interest to others. If we discussed every issue only once, we’d have nothing left to talk about. Sometimes, it puzzles me why people piggyback onto old topics instead of starting new ones, but it’s not a big deal.

As for promoting Shillington, we have forum rules against advertising here, but Studio_Chenchen appears to be an actual designer discussing a general design issue regarding design education. I can’t think of a more important topic for a design forum to discuss.

I have my reservations about for-profit schools and the value of course certificates. But I also have my reservations about students piling up a couple hundred thousand dollars of debt for a top-notch university design degree that lands them an $18 per hour starter job.

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#26

Same here. There seems to be several such “unwritten laws” implied when it comes to old-fashioned message boards like this, but I don’t really care about any of them. Go ahead, resurrect a thread, derail a thread, whatever. As far as I’m concerned, any level of participation is always optional, and always welcome.

#27

I’ve never been asked for proof either and never requested proof from applicants. We mostly took them at their word when filling out the application forms or turning in their resumes.

Faking it through an interview would have been difficult given that so many of the interviews involved discussing previous internships, academic knowledge, experiences, past positions, and the general attitudes that are typical of university design graduates.

I don’t remember ever asking an applicant in an interview where they went to school. By the time they made it into an interview, we had already done the easy background checks. Besides, in the interviews, the subject of school experiences usually came up in a sideways sort of way when talking about various things.

#28

My starting salary 10 years ago was 30k. Couldn’t even live decently in NYC with that.
But it went up really quickly. After 5 years in I was in my 60k. And now double that. It seems to double every 5 years but I don’t know if I have reached the maximum.
Most of my classmates had their family still helping that for a year or two after graduating college.
It is why you don’t see too many people from a less affluent background going to become a designer…

Even my internship was unpaid and cost me credits ( tuition) back then…

I have been seeing many positive changes now though. Now I tell my students to not take an internship if it is unpaid. And it seems like people have been paying their interns now.

I am all for self-learned, non-college degree designers, and I have seen people succeed and be really good at what they do without a degree. James Victore for example.

#29

Perhaps not, but I have hired and my students have been hired with just the Shillington Degree in Australia.

I can only speak for Australia since I have only taught here.

#30

Interesting. Looks like Australia is a very different market for graphic design.

The US has a glut of designers. We have public and private universities and colleges offering programs, community colleges, job training programs, and an abundance of for-profit schools. All these institutions have jumped into the game and they crank out a huge number of graduates every year. Employers can be selective and offer lower wages because there are so many applicants.

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#31

I’m considering Shillington and came across this thread while looking for reviews. Interestingly, the subject asking was it worth 7k is only two years old when now in 2021 the tuition price has soared (it’s 10k sterling, 12k euro), which is A LOT of money.

So far I’m seeing an overwhelming number of reviews saying Shillington was the best decision they ever made, life changing, a fast track into design etc., which sound a bit too good to be true. And I found 2 reviews of past students who said the teaching wasn’t good. So I’d love to hear if anyone here has any more recent opinions on the online Shillington course. It’s 9 months, which gives more time to work on building a portfolio but it would have to be amazing teaching with one-on-one support to be worth €12k.

#32

Considering a good program in the US with a bachelors degree at the end of it costs upwards of 8x that… and still with iffy results…

Not sure what to tell you.
Not familiar with this one.

What does it get you? A certificate? Some kind of degree?
What are the entry level requirements for the job you want, in the country you are located? And does this cover those requirements?

Do you really expect Amazing Teaching at that price point? Is there a faculty list where you can read their credentials? I’d be wary of any teachers who are also graduates… Just sayin’
Very doubtful you’d be getting one on one for that price either.