Color control using indesign

Printing and Prepress
#1

I have a client who is a relatively new designer. They are using indesign to set up large banners. They are having issues with color control (they need to hit certain pms colors). I can easily hit those colors using illustrator. Would I be safe in requesting they set up their files in illustrator as opposed to indesign?

#2

You do realize that Adobe products no longer come with built-in Pantone swatches, right? Whether using Illustrator or InDesign, the problem is pretty much the same. If he/she’s having trouble with Illustrator, does something make you think the problem is different in InDesign?

Pantone makes a plugin for Adobe Creative Cloud apps called Pantone Connect, which costs money. It’s $$ subscription software, though. It’s also possible to manually build the colors as spot color swatches in Illustrator and InDesign, but the correct Pantone name for the swatch is needed for digital printers to print it correctly. The color percentages also need to be added for a simulation of that color to be displayed on a monitor.

Given that, how are you creating the Pantone swatches? Do you have an older version of Illustrator that still includes them? Are you building those swatches yourself? Either way, you can give the name of the swatches and their color breakdowns to this new person so that he/she can build them in InDesign. Of course, that might be the problem — he/she doesn’t know how.

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#3

Thanks. I do know that Adobe no longer supports pantone. We have been printing these banners for this client for quite a few years with no issue. This new designer does not seem to have a clear understanding of color or set up. The logo for the client contains the colors they need to hit, whenever we are designing collateral for them, we use that to sample color in either illustrator or corel and have never had an issue. These are printing is cmyk, so I am stumped why they keep sending files that are incorrect builds of the colors. I have a meeting with them tomorrow, so I was thinking either tell them to use illustrator and sample the logo as we do or start out by giving them the cmyk build.

#4

I can think of a dozen things this person could be doing wrong (didn’t save the color as a spot color, sent the printer a PDF that converted everything to CMYK, etc.), but speculating online without examining the final file is probably a waste of time. The meeting with the printer will probably identify the exact problem. Good luck.

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#5

No. Pantone stopped supporting Adobe.
Pantone removed it’s product from Adobe and created a standalone product.
It’s cheap anyway.

and just because it no longer ships with it - you can import the swatches from other files.

Setting up in InDesign or Illustrator makes no difference.

Pantone is an ink - if you’re using Pantone colours it doesn’t matter what it looks like on the screen.

It’s when it goes to print those inks are used to print the task.

So what’s the issue they’re facing?

Unless the screen and application are colour calibrated then it won’t matter if using InDesign or Illustrator.

If it’s pantone - just use the Pantone colour and at print the colour is applied.

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#6

So you’re using Pantone colours but printing in CMYK?
Why don’t you have CMYK values 
 it’s likely the Pantone colour can’t replicate to CMYK as it’s likely out of gamut.

What are you Application Colour Settings? What are your PDF settings?

These are things you can share with your designer - what CMYK profile your Application is using.
What PDF settings you use - which can be saved as a .joboptions file.

It’s likely that they are using the Pantone colour but the conversion to CMYK profile is different because they are not using the same CMYK profile.

Illustrator and InDeisgn and Photoshop all use the same colour conversion.

What’s the point in using Pantone colours when you’re printing CMYK?

You should determine the CMYK values and ensure those values are ok in the PDF and match.

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#7

Smurf

They are printing BANNERS. The machines used to do this are CMYK plus a few other inks in many cases. They still need Pantones to hit. You know this, but like Adobe, seem to forget we exist sometimes.

And I’m willing to bet the CMYK mixes that are being used are the mixes needed to hit the specific Pantone color at this particular print vendor. I’m even willing to bet the colors match across print platforms (in a well run printshop, they do, for the most part - but usually the color number has to be applied.)

I match Pantones in print all day long, but have never mixed a Pantone spot color ink in my entire 20+ year career.

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#8

Ah yeh banners I forgot that part in my reply.

Yeh so it’s up to print shop to match the Pantone.

If the file is being supplied in CMYK there is no pms reference for the hit

So unless the file is supplied with the pms reference.

Like red is 185c please match

Or supply the file with the pms not converted to CMYK

Some printers won’t accept with pms and request CMYK only.

It really depends in the setup.

Need a lot more info.

But the op could communicate with the designer.

#9

Bingo! We outsource these sometimes but also do them inhouse on our rolands,.We provide the pms color and ask for a close match when outsourcing. The issue is that the new designer is not savvy and I was hoping to teach them to do it themselves, however, it looks like I will be rebuilding the files for them using our dedicated matches. Thanks anyway guys!

#10

If you don’t want to spend your time doing other people’s work, you need to sit down with them and show them how it is done. Repeatedly if necessary.

#11

You’ve completely lost me - you’ve got dedicated matches - but you expect a designer out of the loop to match these?

#12

They’re called swaps. It’s what we have to do to hand match a very critical Pantone color when the profile doesn’t quite do the trick.

The dedicated matches are simply CMYK numbers swapped into place for the Pantones - which with InDesign is ridiculously easy to do compared to Illustrator or Photoshop.
You make the swatch (or import it from a template file) and simply make the swap.
The step that’s probably missing is the Import feature.
K.I.S.S. is necessary element of design, at all phases of design.

#13

Using the ink manager? So you alias the inks to the CMYK swatches?

#14

In theory we do a test print before hand, usually a scatter test, giving the designer multiple swatches with their CMYK values. They select from that and then it’s up to them to apply them to their files. Much like this OP’s situation.

In cases where a Pantone is being hand matched, it depends on where the file is in the process. With InDesign we add or import the CMYK swatch(es) to the Swatch palette, select the Pantone swatch, delete it and select the CMYK swatch during the delete process. Instant global change. All pages. Then do a “Save As.” Always keep the client original in case you have to argue about it later.
You can’t do that ‘delete with change’ in any other Adobe software. At least, not without gymnastics.

If the file has gone to rip, that may be a different matter. That’s a step above me in the production ladder and it varies. They sometimes have to do corrections after the check print.

#15

Gotcha