This is a continuation from my previous discussion where this topic came up and I know this is going to be a bit of a battle, but I thought it would still be worth it to have a discussion. So here are my main questions:
For logos: . How an EPS file affects transparency? Does it apply to all logos or only logos with transparency. Why if EPS is such an old file, companies keep using it (like Facebook for example and many more? How long before it stops being used? How long the transition will take? Will EPS really go away?
For illustrator art: all illustrations in iStock and other image banks come in EPS files… should they be PDF? why they are not using PDFs? does it really matter? in which cases? transparency cases?
I appreciate all your personal and professional views on this.
I’m not sure there’s much difference. I recently found out by accident that I can open an Adobe Illustrator file as a pdf just by changing the extension letters. I suspect that the file data isn’t very different between pdf, eps, and ai. They all use the PostScript language. The small difference seems to be in what the program looks for in the headers of the file. PDF offers more options, while EPS offers more backward compatibility.
PD will probably be able to answer the question better.
All formats below may contain raster data or vector data, or a mix of both.
EPS is effectively obsolete. It offers no transparency or color management support.
Illustrator EPS is different than anyEPS in that it is read back into Illustrator as a native format that does support transparency and color management.
PDF is Adobe’s Portable Document Format, and there are many ways to write a PDF inside and outside of Adobe applications. It was originally designed as a read-only, deployment format.
Illustrator PDF is a specialized dual format that includes PDF data for reading outside of Illustrator and Illustrator-native data for reading back into the application as an AI-equivalent.
While several advancements in vector graphic construct have fostered a misplaced notion that transparency is in play in vector-editing environments, the concept of “transparency” only applies to raster data. EPS can only present the illusion of raster transparency via inclusion of a clipping path.
For the purposes of your professional graphic design output, it should have gone away more than 10 years ago.
In addition to what HotButton said, which I completely agree with, EPS is still around and still being used for various reasons.
Habit
It’s a lowest-common-denominator format that many old (and new) applications can still create and read.
Many consumer-level applications that do not support advanced non-Postscript features, like transparency, stick with simplicity and what other consumer-level applications support — EPS being one of them.
It’s a format that doesn’t involve a bunch of licensing, which lower-end applications tend to avoid.
EPS can be fine for most people in the same sense that a cheap Walmart power drill will do what most people need. Professionals, however, need something a little more robust, durable and with more capabilities.
Eps does NOT support transparency. It will flatten it into solid colors. If transparency is involved at all with a raster image, if flattened, you may get a sliced up image that is no longer linked but embedded as hundreds of shards (you’ll see each piece in the links palette.) This type of save rarely opens properly even in Illustrator. The stitching you get may or may not print.
As a matter of fact, in Adobe programs, spot colors used with transparency can wreak havoc with many PDF formats as well. Saving as PDF requires knowing what you are doing and if you are trying to preserve any spot colors.
I’ve often wondered about stock eps formats. I don’t use them enough to care all that much. Technically they should be .ai. But .eps is the lowest common denominator for those using stock in things other than Adobewares. If it looks like it has transparency in it, buyer beware.
PDF is PDF (and NOT PostScript though it can contain PS).
AI files typically have two parts in it, a PDF part and an Illustrator part. Most apps read the PDF part only, so that an AI file appears to them as being an PDF basically. Illustrator of course reads the Illustrator part of the AI file.
To confuse it even more, Illustrator can put an Illustrator part into EPS files, so that they can carry transparency, though EPS doesn’t support unflattened transparency.
Yes, a different beast, but EPS files can also contain bitmapped data that is encapsulated by the PostScript.
Years ago, I was working with a newspaper pagination system that would only accept EPS files. Everything needed to pass through the RIP — even bitmapped (raster) images needed to be saved with PostScript headers and footers if they were to be output separately without being component in a PostScript document.
What I’m getting from this is that unless a logo is a raster image on Illustrator (for some reason), then it’s okay to save it in EPS (besides ai. .pdf. etc.) If it’s just vector, and therefore there is not transparency, then it shouldn’t be a problem??
No. Illustrator has transparency capabilities that do not involve imported raster imagery. Those capabilities could still be considered vector — just not PostScript compatible. PostScript and, by extension, EPS do not support these Illustrator capabilities.
EPS is an outdated, obsolete and antiquated format. Unless one has a specific reason for saving something as EPS, don’t.
Yes, if you are not dealing with transparency, you’re options are greatly expanded. I wouldn’t trust delivering a logo with transparency in any format other than PNG. But then it wouldn’t be scalable.
It really depends on the problem you are trying to solve. I said EPS offers more backward compatibility. That’s only a solution if you are trying to make the logo compatible with the oldest possible software. But if you are trying to make the logo compatible with the widest variety of software and still be scalable, PDF is the way to go. Raster formats might be compatible with an even wider variety of software, but they are not scalable.
If you want to make the logo scalable and compatible for browser display without having to convert it, SVG is the way to go. But SVG isn’t as compatible with as much software as PDF. If you want to make the logo most editable, Ai is the way to go. But Ai is the least compatible with other software.
Even if this is an old discussion, I specially created my account to give a qualified answer her:
EPS has some very important issues. It has been named here that EPS does not support transparency and even more important colour management.
Adobe Illustrator files may either embed PDF or EPS. Embedding a PDF will make the file readable by a PDF reader as Acrobat, which is great for people not having Illustrator by hand.
But you need to know that Illustrator file format is neither EPS nor is it PDF but it’s a format on it’s own. That said, no application will be able to read a full fledged modern Adobe Illustrator file without the embedded data. Not even Photoshop or Indesign will read Illustrator format.
So if someone saves a native Illustrator file, it still stays editable by Illustrator, but other applications are not able to read it. If you save a pure EPS file or a pure PDF file, you indeed will loose information that may be important if you want to change the file later on.
Even if Illustrator is able to read pure PDF, it should not be used as a PDF editor as it may modify data in a way that makes the PDF file unusable. If however you have only a PDF file or EPS file, best is to read it into Illustrator and saving it as an Illustrator file.
Logos are best kept in Illustrator. SVG is the best option for web, PDF (X/4) is the best option for print. If you need to exchange graphics with a third party program who cannot read in native Illustrator (I know of none who can), PDF is the best choice.
The two major sign softwares can open .ai files. Signlab and Flexi. I suspect both use the PDF support of Illy to do so though. I’ve had files truncated if the art board in the original file is over 200” when using Signlab.
Illustrator supports what they call “Raster Effects”. Basically, scalable raster images which you can decide the resolution of on export. This includes effects like drop shadows. When these things are included in your document, you want to stick with AI format. Any kind of gradient transparency, like feathers or opacity masks, also follow the same rules. Only use EPS for clean-edged vector art. Of course, logos shouldn’t include raster effects but unfortunately many end up being made and sent out with them. If there’s a subtle shadow or something in the logo which the layout artist didn’t notice, they might link an EPS to discover that it won’t export to PDF properly without a cut-up square behind the raster effect, requiring them to switch to an AI or PDF version. Such a file should never have been provided as an EPS in the first place, but on the flip side, a logo created with best practices in mind should ideally be backwards-compatible like EPS format. So both export and design can be blamed…
EPS is Encapsulated Postscript & it is created & editable in illustration softwares like Illustrator, CorelDraw, Inkscape etc. whereas PDF is Portable Document Format it is developed by Adobe and compatible with acrobat reader.
.eps is an outdated format that DOES NOT HANDLE TRANSPARENCY.
If you have raster Effects in your file, don’t use it.
Same goes for PDF. Depending on how the PDF is created, there is a possiblity you will flatten transparency effects into an uneditable mess. Not to mention you may make the resolution of said transparency effects fixed and no longer scaleable.
I found that some prints shops (especially large format and grand scale) use very old versions of software. I’ve even had some embroidery shops ask for a .eps file specifically. It can be a pain to keep up with all the different file formats because my day to day operation barely requires it, but the higher tier clients are pretty much baby boomers.
?
Sorry. I work in a wide format print shop, so to speak, and we don’t use any “old” versions of software. However, large format and “grand” scale do request native files on purpose, rather than .pdf files. You can’t possibly have our high-end, sometimes proprietary color profiles for all the machines, media and inksets we use, so if we have native files, we can apply those profiles to get you the best result possible. If you want to send .pdf with some random or generic profile applied, you get what you get.
As for .eps files, an embroidery shop wants a flat file with no transparency. A .eps will do that, sometimes to the detriment of whatever it is you are sending. It’s up to you to know the process or at least ask. You can’t do fuzzy drop shadows or gradient/transparency blends in embroidery. Otherwise, I highly suggest you avoid the .eps format altogether. It is old tech, does not play with transparency at all, and will totally mess up a lot of things in your file with unintended consequences.
Not sure what being a baby boomer has to do with high tier clients, eps or pdf files. That seems kinda random. Most of my high end clients are Millennials. Go figure. LOL. Though there are a few boomers left that haven’t retired. I have somewhere between 3 and 7 more years left before I can retire. Then I’m outta this train wreck of an industry.
Sorry to come out swingin, but part of YOUR job as a designer is knowing what you need to do to get the best possible result for your end client. If that means learning about and working within the limitations (as you may see them) of your various vendors, sorry bout that.
