Inkscape + Affinity Designer Combo

Software
#21

I know this is a thread about alternatives to Adobe Illustrator, but the Illustrator extension, Logo Package Express, will do all this in, literally, seconds. At least that’s what all the reviews I’ve read say. I’ve heard quite a few designers sing the praises of this extension, so I assume it works as advertised.

I don’t design enough logos to make it worth the purchase price, but for other designers, it could be a significant time (and money) saver. Affinity Designer has similar functions built in, but I’ve never used them, so I don’t know how they compare. Perhaps you do.

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#22

I just took a quick look:

https://www.logopackage.com/#extension-pricing

At $119 this extension alone is much more expensive than Affinity Designer. :open_mouth:

It looks interesting, though, and might be usefeul.

#23

Never heard of that extension.

It takes no time at all to prepare
Proper CMYK
Proper RGB
Proper Spot Colours
Proper 2/3 colour versions (if needed)
Proper 1 colour versions

It’s part of the package.

Along with designing the logo - this is the delivery side of things.

Why so hung up on the price of things? Everything is chargeable.

Affinity might be cheaper - but Illustrator is the industry standard.

if someone came to me with an Affinity native file - I’d have to charge extra on top of what I was already charging.

I was actually a beta tester on the Affinity products - and I know them very well.

Sadly, for me, they didn’t match the high-end affordable solution that Adobe offers. Which is very cheap.

It’s cheaper per month than putting gas in my car (petrol/diesel).

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#24

Often, there are many more files than that.

  • RGB vector for light background
  • RGB vector for dark background
  • CMYK vector for light background
  • CMYK vector for dark background
  • 24-bit PNGs for both light and dark backgrounds
  • Pantone versions for light and dark backgrounds
  • RGB and CMYK raster files (TIFFs maybe) for both light and dark backgrounds
  • Greyscale and B&W versions for light and dark backgrounds
  • PDFs of all of the above
  • A JPEG (for some reason clients often want them)
  • Different configurations for all of the above — for example vertical and horizontal lockups/compositions
  • SGVs of everything
  • Small, simplified versions of all of the above
  • Larger, more detailed versions of all of the above
  • Black and white versions of all of the above
  • Greyscale versions of all of the above
  • CMYK versions of all of the above
  • A blinged-out version
  • Variations of all of the above for different departments or entities within the company needing their name names incorporated in various configurations

I’m just scratching the surface; it can go on and on to dozens of files.

Of course, not every client needs all these files. For that matter, it will confuse most of them. Those companies with on-staff designers likely don’t need them anyway. However, the point is that it really can be a tedious, time-killing, and expensive exercise to bundle up a comprehensive set of logo files. Any application or extension that makes it quicker for those who frequently design logos is money well-spent.

#25

Typically hitting the territory of brand guidelines here.

I’ve seen very 1,000-page brand books with every eventuality.
I’ve seen 10-page brand books with basic eventualities.

You build all these into the cost of the logo agreement.

I know what you’re saying. If that extension works for all these things - that’s amazing - what an amazing price.

#26

I would never send you a native, app-specific file, be it an .AFDESIGN or an .AI.

My clients don’t receive such files either.

Instead, I supply them with .SVGs, .PDFs, .EPSs and .PNGs, so they don’t need a specific app to edit their logo files.

#27

But for the logo they would require the actual .ai files.

EPS is a largely defunct file format. Albeit, still widely used, it’s highly recommended to use .ai with pdf compatible.

That’s insane. As opening PDFs or EPS or any other file format in anything other than what created the file is going to cause problems.

Illustrator - and other Vector editing programs are NOT PDF editors.
Nobody should be opening any PDF in any program other than what created it.

That is - if you saved a PDF from Illustrator with Illustrator editing capabilities that’s fine. If you’re sending files to your clients PDF format and they’re opening it in anything at all they could cause strange things to happen as not all things might be honoured - like clipping paths, gradients, compound paths.

By not supplying native files to clients you are actually causing more harm than good.

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#28

@Jakub_Trybowski

I hope you’re taking this in - we’re trying to help you (or at least I am).

If you have any questions let me know. I see the same trap coming up for a lot of people across various forums. And it’s great when someone takes the advice on board.

Let us know if any of it is not making sense or what questions you might have.

I’ve looked at your logos - and your work - and it’s not bad - but I’m trying to steer you in a direction that is more beneficial for both you and your clients.

I hope it makes sense and that it is helpful.

I wouldn’t say you’ve done a whole lot wrong - but understanding pitfalls and how to avoid them is a huge plus.

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#29

What you’ve described is true, but these are problems more typically encountered in more complex files. Logos are simple shapes — basically nothing more than simple filled paths.

I include PDFs because (1) they’re expected, (2) clients can always open them to view the logo, and (3) they can always be used in a pinch by designers when clients can’t find all those more appropriate files that they couldn’t open. It’s hardly ideal, but it happens.

Even though EPS is an outdated format, it still works for logos and is widely used for them because of its cross-application compatibility.

Logos don’t (or shouldn’t) contain clipping paths, gradients, transparencies, etc. Compound paths move seamlessly between various vector editing applications.

SVGs are great for logos, they’re totally generic, and nearly every well-designed logo can be saved to SVG.

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#30

Thank you very much. I really appreciate your help.

I would like to clarify that my .PDFs are pure vectors, without any app-specific elements.

Please just have a look at this actual client file:

#31

The PDF is fine - because you save it as an illustrator PDF with editing capabilities.

In fact, the only way you see a preview of the ai file is the PDF compatible file that is saved with it - when that option is saved.

There are rhymes and reasons for doing certain things.
But not supplying the native design files for a logo is something different.

And we all know gradients/transparencies etc shouldn’t be used in logos - but they are.

Yes, I said it about the EPS format.

But clients need the native files, c’mon. It’s a basic for them.

Of course, PDF, PNG, TIff, SVG etc. to accompany it. But the original design files should be with them.

It’s actually something I label the folder with.

Native Design Files

So many things can go wrong - i know that logos shouldn’t have clipping paths and compound paths - but it does, when you outline a font a compound path is formed for the counter of the letters. And now you’re relying on a non-native app to correctly display these paths in the order they are meant to be viewed without anything breaking - only a small example.

And you might notice if you open a logo in a non-native app that there’s a bounding box around it - as it’s applied a clipping path for the media area.

But you wouldn’t see these things within the native app.

Ok - small examples - but just quick scenarios.

I do it all the time when clients can’t find their own logo - find a publication of a PDF online, extract the logo. Or find an SVG on their website, extract it etc.

But I have a few fixups to these, like applying branding colours - or erradicating bad paths.

C’mon.

#32

So this is what I was explaining to you before.

You have included a colour profile for US Web Coated SWOP.
Web presses are the big newspaper type presses. and SWOP which just means ’ Specifications for Web Offset Publications’

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But this would be a colour profile based on it being printed on a web printer in the US using that type of printing.
Here it is side by side using a different colour profile.

So your one is on top - what happens when it goes to printers is that your colour profile is ignored - and they use their own colour profiles.

image image
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You might think it’s a great idea to these colour profiles in place and hope they are honoured, but largely they won’t.

Which is why we specify colours with Pantone - as it gives a level playing field and no excuses (really) for colour mismatching.

And it’s not just the printers ignoring your colour profiles.
The blue for your Ocean gives me a reading of this
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100 Cyan and 80 Magenta

So as we alluded to - people have a tendecy to think that Illustator or any vector editing progam is a PDF editor. And it’s not

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And what I see in Illustrator is strange compound paths
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And this is what can fail in a RIP - as someone needed to alter the file - opened it up in Illustator - made the edit - resaved it.
And it goes to print - and the compound path fails - as it can - and the logo is ruined.

I’d need to rebuild that logo in Illustator - which is an added cost to the client - a client to which you charged and supplied a PDF too - and do you think the client is pleased with you over this?

Just a scenario - you don’t have to answer.

Now I resave the PDF to my settings (cos I’m just doing this for visual)

image

You see the colour has shifted.

The major problem with your file is - that if you change the simulation profile in Acrobat - the numbers of the CMYK changes. And it shouldn’t.

image

Changing your colour profile

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And here’s the logo fixed up so no colour changes no matter what

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Hope this helps highlight all the concerns I’ve raised.

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#33

Yes, I always save logo files with the Illustrator editing box checked, but that’s a just-in-case fallback measure for designers who, as I said, get the PDF from their clients who don’t know enough to send them the SVG or .ai or EPS. The main reason for sending a PDF is, as I mentioned, so clients can open it when, as often than not, they don’t have a clue what the other files are for.

Yes, I did that just two days ago, when a client sent me a logo from a sponsor he pulled off his sponsor’s website. I located an online brochure from the company and extracted a vector logo from the PDF. Yeah, we’ve both done that dozens of times.

Not for logos. Even so, I always send .ai files because that’s typically the preferred format designers want. But for logos, SVG or EPS work just fine for almost all well-designed basic logos. The absence of a native file in a logo package shouldn’t be a big deal. When it is a big deal (for the basic logo), the logo was built with application-specific data that shouldn’t be there in a logo design.

I’m not making an argument for what should be done to maximize compatibility for badly built logos. I’m making arguments for how they should be built to begin with. The blinged-out versions that are sometimes included as part of well-designed logo packages, however, can contain these kinds of application-specific features, so there, yeah, I agree with you. However, anything short of that, as far as a logo is concerned, should be as generic and non-application-specific as possible.

Open PDFs that weren’t saved for Illustrator and the normally hidden bounding boxes will, of course, show up as visible paths that need to be deleted in Illustrator and other vector apps. Software applications, like Affinity Designer, can open native Illustrator files just fine. This is sort of a side issue, though.

In general, as usual, I agree with you on most everything. However, most of your concerns expressed here are more applicable to files more complex than logos, which should be simple and generically built for maximum compatibility between applications and over time.

Any logo (other than the fancy, blinged-out versions) should be designed to be simple and generic. Yes, plenty of badly designed logos don’t follow these rules, but I’m not talking about badly designed and constructed logos — I’m saying how they should typically be done. Any basic vector logo that contains data that can only be properly opened and used by the software application in which it was built was, in my opinion, designed the wrong way. Compatibility with generic PostScript (which from the beginning included support for compound paths as part of the original specs) should be a goal in logo design. If there’s anything in the logo vector file that’s specific to Illustrator (Designer, Inkscape or whatever), the logo was (with situation-specific exceptions) built the wrong way.

#34

Thank you very much.

The file was created with Affinity Designer, not Illustrator.

That “compound path” is just a simple, basic hexagon with a two-color gradient. It shouldn’t cause any issues.

Each client receives a palette with all the color codes (CMYK, RGB and HEX):

#35

All in all - the same rule doesn’t apply to all.
This is the logo for the national board of food in Ireland -

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And those guidelines have specifics how to build the gradient for different situations - it’s very strict.

But all logos shouldn’t have gradients, these things don’t happen all the time.

The actual brand guidelines and how to use the gradient are very strict.

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#36

Is that it?

#37

Yes, that’s it.

#38

Fair enough - if you’re happy with your workflow then go for it.

Best of luck with it.

#39

In my post, I mentioned several times that I wasn’t addressing how to make badly constructed logos more usable. I was addressing how they should be built in the first place to avoid these kinds of compatibility issues.

The Irish Food Board’s decision to build their logo with possible and unnecessary compatibility issues is precisely what I’m saying shouldn’t be done. Them placing data into their files that may or may not require a specific software application to use is a mistake. This is common but is exactly the kind of thing that I’m arguing against.

The subject here isn’t how to work around other people’s bad decisions — it’s about how designers can minimize these kinds of problems by doing it right to begin with.

#40

Thanks to your advice now I certainly want to improve my color workflow and finally probably make it Pantone-based. :slight_smile:

One thing is that I have no control over the printing process of my designs, which are designed for clients from all over the world.