Unlearning The Old Ways

Web Design
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I may have mentioned elsewhere that I am technically a Chemist who managed the lab for a Chemical Manufacturer for 30 years when the place sold and new owners downsized much of the most experienced staff, myself included.

So to get by until I find more work in my field, I am going back to making websites. But I am getting age discrimination and (I ran my own business for 15 years after high school, so I am old now) and am barely getting interviews. So this may need to become all I do for money. I did this on the side so long ago that I missed the whole introduction of css. I cannot say how much I miss the font tag!!

Anyway, trying to learn the new ways is not going smoothly at all times. Once I recognize that what I am doing is using outdated stuff, I need to figure out what new tricks even exist to do what I need.

Took a couple online html5/css courses but all I can find seem to be either for beginners or advanced users with the intermediate users left to fill in the blanks on their own.

Anyone have any advice where to find either intermediate courses or more complete ones that run from beginner to advanced without skipping the intermediate stuff? Are courses even the right way to proceed? I was given a subscription to Envato Elements to help with the fonts and stock photos and even photoshop filters that still work on my CS6 Suite. Their “Tuts Plus” section is one source that leaves out the intermediate stuff. They also have html templates, and I am tempted, but have the same problems with that which I have with ai - it’s not my code and updating it gets weird since I am unsure where to find what I want changed.

The hardest part for me is even articulating a question that is relevant to today’s syntax for search engines when I get stuck.

I have resorted to ai twice now and, despite it working, I have ethical issues with that approach. I would much rather learn what I need and do it myself. Apart from the ethical issues, when a client asks for a minor tweak I have absolutely no idea what to do, and often cannot even find the relevant bit of code which the ai wrote to play with and modify via hit-or-miss, almost random, efforts (if you don’t know what to do, but have very basic coding knowledge and good logic skills, this can work if you can locate the right code to play with).

I’m not sure if this is even a question, or just a rant. But I like to rant, so it is whatever you make of it.

…

Anyone wanna hire a Chemist?

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My honest take on tutorials is that they teach you to build something that works in one situation, under the best conditions, with very little scope for changing it.

It’s paint by numbers. You already know what it looks like before you start, and you know what it will look like when you’re finished. Real work doesn’t happen that way. It evolves from a conversation at the start to a collaboration at the end, and usually what was discussed at the start is modified, expanded, pulled apart, rebuilt, and left open for more work in the future.

Templates are much the same. Some are useful as a starting point, but a lot of the ones I’ve seen, including from bigger sources, are poorly constructed and need a lot of pulling apart, fixing, rebuilding, restructuring, recolouring, and generally making sense of before they are actually useful.

I’d maybe think about how your old habits map onto the modern equivalents. If you used to build websites with frames, largely not done now, how is that same idea handled today? If you used to use the font tag, what is the CSS equivalent now? Classes, typography rules, reusable styles, variables, layout systems. Same goals, different controls.

One thing I’d suggest is taking a website you like and trying to rebuild part of it yourself. Not the whole thing. Just a section. A landing page, a portfolio page, a product section, a contact form, that sort of thing. Build it the way you would normally think to build it. Then look at how modern sites are doing the same thing. Where are they using flexbox? Where are they using grid? How are they handling responsive breakpoints? How are they keeping the CSS clean? You’ll probably learn more from breaking and fixing one small page than passively following ten tutorials.

I tell everyone this, from when I was a martial arts instructor, to college, to work, to talking to staff - your mindset has to shift. It’s about how you see yourself and how you use what you already know.

One martial artist might be able to do the somersault, split kick, backflip stuff, and fight while standing on their hands. Great. But someone else might be better at deconstructing a manoeuvre, understanding the purpose of it, and rebuilding it in a way that suits their own body and ability. They may not be physically capable of doing the flashy version, but they can still make the move work.

That’s why your chemistry and lab background is not a weakness. It’s methodical, procedural thinking. That is very transferable. Web design has changed, but logic, documentation, testing, troubleshooting, and knowing how to work through a problem are still valuable skills.

And yes, asking the right question is half the battle. Sometimes AI can be useful there without letting it write the code for you. Ask it things like, “what is the modern CSS equivalent of this old HTML approach?” or “explain what this section of code is doing.” Used that way, it becomes more of a tutor than a ghost-writer.

With your background, I’d also look at pharmaceutical and scientific companies. Your chemistry experience could be a real advantage there. Pharma companies have websites, digital libraries, regulated content, online resources, product information, documentation systems, and all sorts of material that needs a careful, structured approach.

Your background would probably suit that world more than you think.

2 Likes
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Interesting. Way back in my long lost youth I taught Aikido. And I tutored in college (Chemistry and Philosophy for the Logic courses). So I know about different people needing different techniques (I devised a “Pervertiotic Table Of The Elements” which got poorly performing students who just needed some silliness to learn this stuff) (It worked so well I had a Prof tell me she wished she could get away with teaching it) (Chemistry can be sexy if you’re weird!).

.And the whole making sites for the Pharma industry is interesting, but so far, and even back then, I am hindered by being self taught. Everyone wants a piece of paper that says you can do what you claim before they’ll hire you, and I am not paper trained :dog_face:

Being self taught is amusing in one way - the only people who will hire me are Churches and Porn Sites. Which I think is a Wonderful resume! Shows I can work with anybody.

I wish corporate dweebs understood that lab skills are transferable! I have spoken to many employers and recruiters in the health care field (where 95% of the open lab positions are in my area) and every one told me that my experience “does not align” with what they do. I was an Industial Chemist. Made water treating products, cleaners, lubricants and even personally formulated an environmentally friendlier anti freeze formula so a big motor company could break into the middle east where they forbade Sodium Nitrite from such products! But health care people are snobs and apparently have people who have the background they want, so I have to find new ways - and fast. Already lost my car and may still lose the house (health care costs for the woman I love ate my savings before I lost my job so everything hit at once, and hit hard).

And yeah, asking the right questions is key. I get answers that can work, but I get caught up in the micro details like exactly where the code snippets I find go or why modifying them often needs to be done in multiple places. That’s where my old ingrained ways hold me back. I’m used to it all being in one file. Making progress with that, but I do tend to just keep my scripts in the header and footer because I work better that way and any delay in page loading is minimal - there are not a lot of unused external scripts like I see in these “pre made libraries” of css people use. They may only ever reference a tiny fraction of what it contains but they include it all - part of my confusion comes from sifting through so much stuff that never gets used. Keeping only the stuff you need, and keeping it all in one file, is the only way that makes sense to me, sadly. Part of what I need to unlearn!

Thanks for the thoughtful reply!

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You might want to take a step back and look at the bigger picture of website development and where it’s headed.

I started designing and coding websites in the middle ’90s, and continued to do so as part of my work until about four years ago. I finally decided that I didn’t like how complex and specialized it had become.

Today, almost all websites are built in content management systems (CMS). Unless you’re designing or modifying the template/theme for the CMS, there’s little need to code much of anything. If you are coding those templates, you’ll need to know HTML, CSS, and a bit of JavaScript, and PHP, in addition to whatever set of constraints, frameworks, and features the CMS imposes. (they’re all different).

If you’re working as part of a team, you would start out at the bottom, and as you mentioned, age discrimination would probably be an insurmountable hurdle.

The big change happening right now is that AI can write nearly perfect code in any language for any platform. Learning how to interact with AI LLMs to write code for what you want or act as an assistant is what’s happening now. The need for coders won’t go away anytime soon, but my guess is that the need will be a small fraction of what it was.

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Thanks for the thoughts. All good points.

I’ll never be part of a team since I’m self taught and they all want those dang certificates. But I have a unique clientele with which I have a nice reputation from doing this as a side gig. Just trying to expand it now and my particular references work best at getting other jobs within their own communities and not so well outside of them (Churches and Porn Sites!) (Yeah, I know). My strong point is the unusual content I can make, like html5 games (different types of game for each group!) (In fact, the church’s games aren’t even games, just things like interactive biblical timelines - but made with html5 game making software so you can click around, open things like other pages or various media, etc.) and I’m a fair hand at video editing to add special effects and more (not much of that for churches, but the most amusing effects I ever did for the other group!)

As for AI… Yuck. I mentioned that I have resorted to it a couple times, but I hated to do it. I have genuine issues with the way ai is being used and even powered. Everyone MUST minimize their use of it for so many reasons it is shocking that the push is in the other direction. But hey, who needs any real skills or breathable air for the next generation if we can get our ceo’s another yacht, right? It’s a useful tool and a fun toy, but it comes at too high a price. At least in a society that values profit above all else.

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From everything you’ve written, you obviously come across as an intelligent, academic, methodical person.

Have you thought about doing an online diploma or certificate in Web Design or Web Development? Not necessarily because you need it to do the work, but because employers often want that piece of paper to tick the HR box - if you don’t have it you don’t even get past the filters, never mind into the hands of a human.

You’ve already got decades of professional experience and the ability to learn. A recognised qualification could simply bridge the gap between what you can do and getting someone to give you the interview.

I wouldn’t see it as starting over. I’d see it as adding one missing piece that makes the rest of your experience easier to sell.

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Excellent thinking! I have not found any online courses in my price range (basically $0 since I’m unemployed and not covering the bills as it is). That’s why I got in with the groups I did. Most places which need that paper are in business selling material things - their business is stuff.

Churches and porn sites are different. Their business is people, not things, so they are far more understanding and only care what you can show them you do - not how you learned it or who else says you learned it.

Both groups are great people! The porn crowd are the best people I ever worked for in my life.

Churches are VERY slow to pay though. I actually had one tell me that they were doing “god’s work” and shouldn’t have to pay! They had no answer when I asked if that’s what they tell the electric company when the bill comes due.

I’d go for the course if there was a reputable free one, but I honestly EXPECTED to have found another lab job within weeks given my experience, but now my unemployment is nearing it’s end and I don’t know if they’ll grant an extension (can’t even apply for that until it runs out, so gotta save more of it toward the end even though it doesn’t cover stuff now).

Hoping something gives soon and I can get back into my field, but at my age I don’t know how realistic that is.

Just gotta plod on and hope for the best.

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That’s fair, and I get where you’re coming from. When money is tight, even a “cheap” course is expensive if the budget is basically zero.

Working with Churches, I’d set out an agreed price from the start, not wondering if they’re going to pay me at the end of it. If it’s clear to you both that your services are for monetary renumeration then the conversation is easier.

For the work side of it - even something like LinkedIn Learning, free trials, freeCodeCamp, YouTube (don’t normally recommend) courses, or other free structured resources might be worth looking at. Not because they magically replace a qualification, but because they let you show that you’re actively learning the current way of doing things. Even on a CV, being able to say you’re currently working through HTML5/CSS, responsive design, accessibility, flexbox/grid, etc., shows willingness to learn.

I think the bigger question is whether web work is going to stay as a side job to keep money coming in, or whether you’re seriously trying to pivot into it as a main source of income. If it’s only a stopgap until another lab job comes along, then maybe the priority is just getting enough modern web knowledge to take on smaller work safely. If it’s a career change, then some form of structured learning probably becomes more important, even if it’s free.

I don’t think it sounds like you lack ability. It sounds more like you’re under pressure, trying to earn now, and also trying to figure out whether you’re rebuilding a career or just surviving until the next proper job appears. Those are two very different problems.

With your background, I still think science/pharma/technical companies might be worth targeting.

I’ve been in the “do what you have to do while trying to get where you actually want to be” situation myself. When I was in college during the day, the days I wasn’t in college I worked as a labourer on a building site. In the evenings and weekends I worked as a security guard in a shopping centre. At the same time, I was still trying to get to as many martial arts training sessions as I could, often finishing at 11pm or midnight.

After about six months of that, I didn’t know whether I was coming or going. I didn’t know what job I was due in next, whether I was meant to be in college, or what day it even was. One night I got home from training at about 1am, went for a shower, got dressed again, and started walking to work. Halfway there I realised I hadn’t actually slept yet. I turned around, went home, slept for four hours, got up, and did it all again.

So I’m not saying any of this is easy. Sometimes you’re just plodding on because there is no neat option. But I do think it helps to pick one clear track for now either “I’m getting back into lab/science work and web is temporary income,” or “I’m going to make web work the next career and build proof around that.” Once you decide that, the next steps become less foggy.

Either way, I wouldn’t undersell yourself. You’re clearly smart, experienced, and methodical. The trick is finding the route where those things are seen as an advantage rather than a mismatch.

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You definitely picked up on how conflicted I am right now. I am still trying to figure out if this is a career change or a stop gap.

As you said, it is a “do what you have to do” situation. I have already taken the online course route. Got the basics of this new-fangled css stuff, but I think I mentioned that all I can seem to find are either beginner or advanced stuff tutorials, all of which leave the intermediate stage out! They simply expect too much knowledge which was not covered in the beginner toots.

Woof.

I’ll find a way to get through. I always have and don’t plan on giving up now!

Gotta finish this latest “Library” page for a bible study group then focus on sorting through the collectibles. Got 30,000 comic books to sort and sell!

That should help. I just don’t wanna sell it as a wholesale lot until after I pull out the best stuff to try and get closer to retail for (That business I ran after High School was a comic book store) (made a good rep in that business back then too - I’m in the “Thank You” section of Marvel Comics 50th Anniversary book!).

This all comes back to capitalism and how health care should be socialized. Nobody should have to choose between paying bills, eating and getting cancer treatments for the woman they love!!

It’s maddening.

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That is a horrible position to be in, and I don’t think anyone should have to choose between bills, food, and medical care for someone they love. That would drive anyone mad.

I grew up seeing a version of that pressure too. My mother made our clothes, and my father made Christmas presents out of wood in the back garden in the middle of winter because they couldn’t afford clothes or presents. They often went without so we didn’t have to. Different situation, obviously, but I do understand that feeling of people just trying to keep everything held together.

From what you’ve written, you seem to have a lot of strings to your bow. Chemistry, lab management, web work, comics, running a shop, dealing with people, building a reputation, and being able to learn new things. That is not nothing. It just sounds like right now you’re trying to get a tune out of all of them at once, while under pressure, and that’s difficult.

I think you’ll get there, but maybe the trick is not to spread yourself too thin. Don’t shut off whole avenues either, but maybe pick the few that are strongest and most immediate.

For now that might be keep pushing for lab/science work, use the web work for income where you can, and sort the comics carefully enough that you don’t accidentally wholesale away the valuable stuff. That alone sounds like a serious project, especially with 30,000 books.

And being in the Thank You section of the Marvel Comics 50th Anniversary book is not a small thing either. That tells me you’ve already built credibility in more than one world. You’re not starting from zero. You’re just in a brutal patch where too many things are hitting at the same time.

So yes, plod on, but try to plod in the direction that uses your strongest skill sets first.

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It sure sounds good on paper, but I have been told, bluntly, that they do not want to hear about my unrelated skills. I always thought Excellence in any field, even comic books, shows … Excellence? I have been told on several occasions that it makes me look unfocused.

I truly loathe corporate America :enraged_face:

So yeah… On with the plodding!

Sad part is right now, I am unfocused. I can’t afford to risk putting all my effort into any one area which may or may not work. Until something gains at least a little traction I need to keep casting a very wide net so I have a better chance of anything at all happening.

Afraid to go minimum wage menial labor until after unemployment runs out. It pays more than a minimum wage job would, but not much. Still - better is better and it’s income while trying other things which have better potential.

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I don’t know if I’ll be able to get over my hatred of the impacts ai data farms have on communities to be able to use it without making myself sick.

I just got the usual client bit where what looks like a subtle change wound up requiring recoding every entry in his library. Hundreds of books and this is not a thing which could be done with “Find/Replace” because it’s so much of a rewrite,

I tried ai. Gave it the new format and the html for the library page and it rewrote every entry to the new format with all the link locations and thumbnails it was using intact.

It works perfectly and took just a few minutes. Would have taken me quite a few hours, maybe 2 days!

THIS is why I hate ai!!

Because it works. And works well for this.

But back to the dang cost.

An ai lobbyist in the EU just told their Parliament (or some other governing body) that they’re going to have to choose between ai and the environment.

Are we allowed to use profanity here? Because … WHAT THE FLUFF KIND OF CHOICE IS THAT???

I wish this technology did not exist. It works too well for people to give up willingly (except me!) (I’d much rather waste 2 days on that crap in a sustainable environment than get it done fast at the cost of a healthy planet).

My old employer had a sign over his desk for the customers that read: “We offer 3 levels of service, and you can have any 2 of the 3 for your project: 1. Fast; 2. Cheap; 3. Good.”

This ai crap wants all 3 but the consequences are not being discussed enough.

Still, I did it. And I now have to stop working for the day because I have a headache. I hate compromising my principles just to keep a roof over my head, but then I remind myself that it’s not for me - it is for health care for the woman I love. I guess I really would kill for her, because that is what I feel like I am doing by incorporating ai into my workflow too much.

I could have done that myself.