Logo for existing business

Wow. After this job I wouldn’t work with that client again. Especially if they said your options were unprofessional and non corporate, and the comment about them looking like Microsoft clipart is insulting IMO. As others have said your options are quite nice and well done.

If worse comes too worse, give him what he wants (the single weight, bright color simple lines you showed in the examples for Tsakalidis and Vet in Progress Plus), then call it a day.

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Your logos are better than this. Seems like he doesn’t even get that he just likes the competitors’ logos because they make more money.

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Frankly, your clients is wrong. Yours are far better and far more professional looking. What he has shown you look like $50 Canva logos.

This is exactly why I am dropping clients; Expectations have been so eroded by the armies of alacritous, ignorant amateurs on crowd source sites, that this crap is now becoming the norm. I refuse to play the game.

Don’t let this erode your confidence. Clients are not always right.

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To me, it looks like a weird garden tool or a broken golf club. I would fire this client at this point, even if it meant taking a loss.

Some clients decide on logos like they do with baby names: they pick whatever tickles their fancy. I can no more crawl into clients’ heads to design their imaginary dream logos than I can pick names they think are perfect for their babies.

I drop clients who expect me to figure out what will make them fall in love. That’s not my job.

When my automobile breaks, I take it to the shop and describe the problem to the mechanic, who uses his experience and abilities to fix it. When that same shop owner comes to me for a logo (or anything else), I expect the same: describe the design problem to me, then let me use my experience and judgment to solve that problem. I don’t need the frustration of working clients who don’t see it that way.

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Now you have something to work towards and the style they like.

This is what a lot of people struggle with - giving in to a style that they don’t agree with.

They are. If you want to get paid.

I’d walk away though - took me a long time to realise that it’s ok to say ‘no’ to clients.

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When a job requires a style different from what I usually do, I do the job in the style that’s called for. However, when a client asks for something inappropriate or ugly, I have problems with it.

First, I dislike working on something I know won’t turn out well. Second, when I design anything, I have to rely on my judgment to decide what will and won’t work. When my judgment is rejected by a client, I’m lost since I have no way of determining what the client will like or dislike. When this occurs, I typically cut my losses and walk away from the job when possible.

Thank you all for your answers.
Smurf is brutally honest and true. If you want the money, you will do whatever they ask, because most people think that this is what graphic design is about (which is not).
The challenge for me is how to design something ugly enough, how to unlearn to design decently.
The logos he showed me, apart from the weird logomarks choices (the first one is like a kindergarden/playground, because of the colors, it doesn’t give the feel of a serious laboratory), they are not properly constructed and balanced.
Now I will try to make a proper moodboard for him. A friend of mine suggested me to hire a 5dollar designer from ** contest site removed ** or upwork to do the job and she bets that my client will be 100% satisfied. :laughing:
Anyway I will approach it as a “challenge”. This is the second time in my 5 year career that I have this issue with unsatisfied client with bad taste. Maybe I could consider my self lucky!

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That’s subjective though.
And when styles don’t match and you can’t agree then that’s fine - that’s when to walk away.

I remember getting my first driving lessons, and I encountered about 5 or 6 instructors before I found one that suited me.

On my first ever driving lesson, the instructor was yelling at me, and I was already nervous.
This style didn’t suit me, and I was terrified to go back with more lessons.
Then my parents got me 10 lessons with someone else.
They were ok, but one of the instructors that I had assigned to me was on their phone for most of the lessons.

I then spent a few years dabbling in and out of lessons. Then I explained my situation to a friend, who gave me a number of an instructor who was great.


I know the story here - it can be off putting to have someone put you down, or not pay attention to the needs required.

As I said from the start - it’s ok to walk away.

But don’t let it deter you in anyway - you can do it - you just need to work with people that will work with you towards the same goal.

Life is funny, and comparable in many ways.

Only your second?

Bad taste is subjective.
If they want a logo that is in that style - it’s the job of a designer to design to the needs of the client.

If you’re talking about your subjective tastes then you’re into a realm of providing an art service, where I would go to an artist to design/paint something in their style.

I’m working with a portrait artist at the moment to paint a picture of our dog - and I picked that person because they have a style of painting that I love, and their work speaks to me.

Maybe your client needs to move to another designer who has similar tastes in art - rather than in progressive logo design.

I remember at the start that you said their artist wife/girlfriend/whoever was reviewing the logos.
So you’re already up against it - you’re not designing to their tastes you’re designing to another persons taste who is an artist who doesn’t agree that a professional progressive logo design is worth anything.

They want something artsy fartsy for their logo.


For the record - I think what they supplied as examples are terrible.

Absolutely horrendous.

You can keep going. But I wouldn’t bother.

I’d maybe do 1 more round of ideas and then make a decision of how much this is worth.

I’ve plenty of things I’ve done in the past that have never made it to my portfolio.

And there’s nothing wrong with that.

Yes my first “traumatic” experience was this.

I am always ok with criticism. What I don’t like is being somewhat aggresive and impolite.
Saying that my designs are like clipart from word, or “I didn’t like anything at all” is not a very good opening to a fruitful conversation.

I would say, do care about money.
Maybe you will be taken more seriously then by some clients.

And educate your clients about how you work and which criteria you are applying before you agree to an assignment. Educate them again right before and while presentation.

You’ve brought up some interesting points. In most cases, the design process involves balancing subjective preferences with objective considerations. While taste and aesthetics are often subjective, there are instances where the context makes them objective. For me, this balance is crucial and has a philosophical component.

Let’s use your example of a pet portrait. The objective is to create a likeness of the pet that meets the client’s subjective preferences. That seems straightforward since those subjective preferences are paramount, and the target audience is limited to one person — the client.

However, in some design problems, clients’ preferences and tastes contradict what they’re trying to achieve. A good example is @Stefanos1984’s dilemma. I assume the client needs and wants a logo conveying professionalism and expertise to his potential customers. Yet he insists that the logo must reflect his subjective tastes (which he mistakenly assumes are his superior objective conclusions), even though they run counter to achieving his primary goal.

I attempt to avoid this problem by being picky about accepting only savvy clients. However, clients sometimes surprise me by insisting on mutually exclusive objectives. Depending on the situation, I can sometimes resolve the problem by pointing it out to them. At other times, as in Stefano’s situation, the client seems to have little respect for professional expertise.

My philosophical stance is that my job isn’t to subordinate objective realities to clients’ subjective wants when doing so contradicts their needs. When they stubbornly disagree, I’m the wrong person for the job, and I usually tell them so when possible.

Similarly, let’s suppose I were an auto mechanic and a customer needed his brakes repaired. Let’s also assume that the customer insisted on me repairing the brakes in a way that created a safety hazard. I would try to explain the problem to the customer, but if he dismissed my expertise and insisted that his amateur opinion was superior to my professional judgment, I would tell him to go elsewhere for his brake repairs.

I’ve said multiple times that it’s ok to walk away.

That’s very different and not a subjective stance.

I put the car in for a service before and the mechanic told me I needed new brakes, and the cost was nearly €800.
At the time I couldn’t afford it on the spot and said to leave it.
I had a NCT (https://www.ncts.ie/) coming up and said I’d see how it goes.
But it passed with flying colours.

I feel the mechanic was trying to pull one on me and charge me for a service repair I didn’t need.

In designer terms
Client: I need a flyer
Mechanic: Well the flyer is ok - but here’s a new brand/logo/style - that will be €800 please.
Client: eh no - just a flyer thanks


Moral of this story - it’s ok to get a 2nd opinion.
It’s ok to walk away (said multiple times)
Nothing bad will happen if you move on from a client.

It was the most empowering thing I ever did years and years ok.

Much of my post was an implicit acknowledgment of that and an elaboration on why I feel similarly. Perhaps I should have stated that more directly.

A problem with using analogies, as I did, is that they’re never one-to-one comparisons.

My sole point with the auto mechanic analogy was that I walk away from clients who ignore my advice and insist upon counterproductive design remedies. Similarly (but not exactly the same), if I were an auto mechanic, I would walk away from customers who insist on unsafe automobile repairs that they naively think are better or more cool or whatever.

Yeh, I guess we’re saying the same thing but in different ways.
The OP has a lot to think about.

I would have walked away a long time ago from this client.
But it’s admirable they are sticking it out and trying to come up with a style that the client will like - even if they don’t personally like it.

It’s a good learning curve and forces you to design out of your comfort zone.

That first one (blue) is bloody excellent (though the small text mightn’t print well). Client is utterly bonkers with all the design taste of a rock.

I see 2 options.

  1. Do the work and hate the result but get paid, or
  2. Walk, perhaps recommending someone else to them.

Thanks for you kind comment.

I m approaching it as a challenge: to satisfy a difficult client with bad taste. Of course I will get paid, I don’t design for free (only for exceptions I choose to do so).
The fun fact is when I told this specific client how much I charge for small business visual identity, he popped his eyes out and say “wow that is way to much”. I ask him “what did you expect”? And he said “50euros max” with an entitled smile.

That’s where I’d have walked away.

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Towards the end of my career I switched role to becoming an employee, heading an in-house department of a not-at-all-small corporation. Man, the potential freelance clients I blatantly fired. I really didn’t need to deal with idiots and fools.

Yeah, I retired a happy man.

Speaking of undesirable clients, I’ve unburdened myself from two likable but frustratingly difficult clients during the past two weeks. I also turned down another longer-term arrangement from a state agency whose examples of previous work showed signs of meddling, poor planning, calcified processes, and other things I didn’t want to deal with.

I can’t remember getting rid of or turning down three clients in such a short period, but it sure felt good not to have to concern myself with their issues. I think I’m finally getting used to the idea that I can retire and no longer need to work at things I don’t find satisfying.

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